Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

186 Engine Rebuild

Started by _duggan208_ , Feb 18 2015 12:34 AM

Prev

Next
»

Please log in to reply

136 replies to this topic

#26 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 04 March 2015 - 11:53 PM

That is brilliant, If my finansual position changes I'll definatly look into that. Long rods seem to be the way to go. I didn't even think about off set grinding the big ends to get them to stay in the top of the bore. I wonder how much lighter they are than the HQ race set up. I though that changing the gudgion ( how the hell do you spell that) pin height would up set the piston balance and would rock around at the top of the stroke. I'm not to sure just how the longer rod helps it would have to change the angle and I'll take a guess and suggest that the piston might slow down further and longer at the top and bottom of the stroke allowing more filling of the cylinder.

Regards

Back to top

#27 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 05 March 2015 - 08:25 AM

Google rod ratio for some on topic reading.

Back to top

#28 N/A-PWR

CABIN ENGINE CONTROLS GALORE

Members
9,635 posts

Name:Dave I
Location:Wooroloo, 65km's East of Perth
Car:'1969' LC RAT TORANA
Joined: 08-December 12

Posted 05 March 2015 - 02:44 PM

Thank's for that DJ,

found this interesting post here.

Google rod ratio for some on topic reading.

What was good to read there, was to have a balanced piston.

would that mean, that if the piston was on a bar, you could rotate it around,

and the piston would stay in any position?

Edited by NA-PWR, 05 March 2015 - 02:51 PM.

Back to top

#29 N/A-PWR

CABIN ENGINE CONTROLS GALORE

Members
9,635 posts

Name:Dave I
Location:Wooroloo, 65km's East of Perth
Car:'1969' LC RAT TORANA
Joined: 08-December 12

Posted 05 March 2015 - 03:17 PM

Re-think - would be balanced from side to side of the pin :huh:

Back to top

#30 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 06 March 2015 - 12:00 AM

Wonder if a starfire rod could have a hole drilled up the middle of it to reduce weight, a hollow rod.

Regards

Back to top

#31 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 28 March 2015 - 12:42 AM

Well while I'm mucking around with my crank (engine part) and my flywheel and clutch is being machined, I'll start looking into the dreaded harmonic balancer. Now that my B&M steel balancer needs a sleve that no one up here seems to want to repair. I'm thinking of the TCI Rattler balancer and if anyone has adapted one or a Small block Chev balancer to a Holden 6.

Regards

Back to top

#32 N/A-PWR

CABIN ENGINE CONTROLS GALORE

Members
9,635 posts

Name:Dave I
Location:Wooroloo, 65km's East of Perth
Car:'1969' LC RAT TORANA
Joined: 08-December 12

Posted 28 March 2015 - 12:46 AM

Rattler rang a bell Jon,

http://www.gmh-toran...onic-balancers/

Back to top

#33 warrenm

Forum Fixture

Members
2,117 posts

Location:Central West NSW
Car:1972 LJ Torana
Joined: 08-November 05

View Garage

Posted 28 March 2015 - 06:12 AM

As Dave I has said above or I use an ATI Super Damper http://www.gmh-toran... +super +damper Haven't used these but they should be ok & have similar weight to the Rattler & Super damper. http://www.pro-race.com/holden.htm

Back to top

#34 greens nice

Forum Fixture

Members
1,011 posts

Name:Kevin
Location:QLD
Car:EH Holden
Joined: 01-November 08

Posted 28 March 2015 - 08:41 AM

The pro race is an exact copy of the b&m

Back to top

#35 Dave6179

Forum Fixture

Members
577 posts

Name:David
Location:NZ
Car:HJ, VN, VX SS
Joined: 23-August 12

Posted 28 March 2015 - 11:23 AM

The 179 I bought at 19 was out of a 'modified' dirt track car... the single seater with the huge wing on the roof. It was a 'everything' beater . The bloke that buit (and raced) it reckoned it was spinning to 10,000rpm (but didn't use a tach!). I threw it in my car with no changes. Went rather well, 2nd and 3rd gear round town, cam came on at 3800, sounded sweet as! When I pulled it apart for its first recon, it had a std red crank and rods!!!! I freaked, no one knew much back then, apart from std stuff was crap, and fitted a steel crank, Starfire rods and Repco flat tops. After its second recon, I pulled it out after 16 years to upgrade to the 202. The bearings could have gone back in, and continue using the motor.

I have a dude who knows what it goes like, wanting it for his mates XU1 replica!

By the way, is that a nice paintjob, or do you have one of those new alloy blocks??

Back to top

#36 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 29 March 2015 - 12:51 AM

Thanks for all those links, i knew they were there somewhere. There are some good choices out there. Temped to get another pro race, i thought the old B&M looked very similar to the pro race. If I do get another pro race I wont be solving my torsional vib problem, I'll be doing the same thing. If I were to put a holden style clutch back in i'd bust the straps or tear them out. Back then, I had it in my head that the light flywheel was accelerating so fast and hard that was busting the clutch straps. Now I'm aware of TV so I should save the extra money and do something to manage them.

As for the alloy block, i should wait for the first of April, its alot lighter than the iron block, Ha, if theres any alloy in it, it would be in the POR 15 engine paint, its bloody good stuff.

regards

Back to top

#37 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 29 March 2015 - 03:46 PM

WHat other options do we have to manage TV besides a giant big frOck off balancer?

Edited by Bomber Watson, 29 March 2015 - 03:46 PM.

Back to top

#38 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 30 March 2015 - 12:25 AM

Well the way i understand it is that the Super damper and the Rattler have extra mechanisms inside them to dampen the TV as well as weight. The rattler initially comes from radial air craft engines and uses cylinders inside the balancer. There are weights inside the cylinders that centrifically react to the twisting crank in a cancelling action. I have not got my head around the super damper yet but it uses o-rings that somehow dampen the TV, just hope I'm at least close to a acurate explantion. Of course no one makes them for the little old dis-regarded holden 6. Just not a viable economical return I spose.

Regards

Back to top

#39 _Bomber Watson_

Guests

Posted 30 March 2015 - 07:20 AM

Ah, I thought you meant some way other than a balancer to do the job.

Back to top

#40 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 31 March 2015 - 12:28 AM

Oh, that would be really bloody nice, imagen stopping TV and no extra weight. some new material that does not twist.

Regards

Back to top

#41 warrenm

Forum Fixture

Members
2,117 posts

Location:Central West NSW
Car:1972 LJ Torana
Joined: 08-November 05

View Garage

Posted 31 March 2015 - 06:10 AM

The way that the Super Damper works,It has a hub that mounts to the crank with a cover, a heavy ring that can float but is sandwiched between the hub & cover with the "o" rings. Don't be scared of having the extra weight, I have run motors with ultra light flywheels then std weight & have been quicker on the 1/4 mile than the light one& the flywheel stays in place. As long as the weight is close to the crank centre line it won't slow it down much.

Edited by warrenm, 31 March 2015 - 06:17 AM.

Back to top

#42 Dave6179

Forum Fixture

Members
577 posts

Name:David
Location:NZ
Car:HJ, VN, VX SS
Joined: 23-August 12

Posted 31 March 2015 - 01:36 PM

I used to have a 350 Chev balancer bolted to my std red balancer. Just used three cap screws to fit it. I took it off cause I read too much weight was bad and gave it back to the bloke I got it from, he wanted to build another stinkin' hot 383. (we have loads of history, he owned a zorst shop!)

Back to top

#43 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 31 March 2015 - 11:12 PM

I wonder if I can get a steel standard balancer and use it to drive the alternator and bolt a super damper onto that, it needs a hub anyway, unless the hub needs to designed a particular way or machine the nose of a rattler and bolt that to the balancer.

thanks Warren, I'm having some extra weight added to my light flywheel, I want to keep it because its a press fit and despite all the battles with TV its never come loose. I need to read your post on your Super damper.

Dave, do you still use your 6 into 1 headers?

regards

Back to top

#44 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 01 April 2015 - 09:40 PM

Just had a look at the back of a rattler, there aint no way thats going to just machine flat and bolt up to a holden balancer. I'll have to dream up some other hair brained idea.

Regards

Back to top

#45 Dave6179

Forum Fixture

Members
577 posts

Name:David
Location:NZ
Car:HJ, VN, VX SS
Joined: 23-August 12

Posted 02 April 2015 - 04:15 PM

No I don't. It's bolted to the garage wall... made too much heat to continue using.

Back to top

#46 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:03 PM

Well I've just got my clutch and flywheel back. I thought the price was a bit steep but George at Racecraft did a great job and my money is well spent. I had the flywheel and clutch machined. I should have taken a pic of the unusual wear I think it was the work of the torsional vibration beast. I also had George add some extra weight to the flywheel. He made up a steel insert to bolt to the inside of the flywheel, the total weight is up from 4 Kg to 11 Kg.

Attached Files

100_4731.JPG 177.13K 4 downloads
100_4730.JPG 158.52K 2 downloads
100_4728.JPG 127.95K 2 downloads
100_4726.JPG 161.97K 2 downloads

Back to top

#47 N/A-PWR

CABIN ENGINE CONTROLS GALORE

Members
9,635 posts

Name:Dave I
Location:Wooroloo, 65km's East of Perth
Car:'1969' LC RAT TORANA
Joined: 08-December 12

Posted 30 April 2015 - 11:48 PM

Very Nice Jon,

what is the thickness of your pressure plate diaphragm?

I use the 1 tonner one in the standard pressure plate, and are needing to beef it up for extreme clutch pressure. :shoot:

Well I've just got my clutch and flywheel back.

Like button for you too

Back to top

#48 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 01 May 2015 - 11:44 PM

i'd have to measure it, but I'll have a guess at around 4mm.

regards

Back to top

#49 _duggan208_

Guests

Posted 15 May 2015 - 10:47 PM

I've finally tightened up the belt and saved enough for my Super damper. Its the Toyota straight 6, i thought it would be a better choise because it is likely to be tuned closest to suit the holden. It also has the option to use a serpentine belt. I have not worked out just what to do with the hub. Modify the toyota, or machine a new Holden hub.

Regards