126 replies to this topic

[racean69]

Try this thread mate.... some good diff info here

http://www.gmh-toran...ic=14036&st=150

[76lxhatch]

Just installed the 290mm kit in my LX with UC front end and everything is fine except on full lock the tyre contacts the flexible brake line at the front. I have 15x8 wheels with 4.25" back space and 225/50 tyres, and it is quite low. There is a couple of inches at most clearance between the tyre and top arm at full lock which is enough but the line needs to move around at this point so I can't tie it to anything and of course the arm moves in relation to the hose too. Has anyone else experienced this problem, if so how did you fix it or is it not worth worrying about as its only at full lock?

[ls2lxhatch]

Hopper Stoppers Article in Street Machine. It shows the routing of the flexible brake line.
http://www.hoppers.c...oranabrakes.pdf

[76lxhatch]

I did figure it out in the end, just needed a twist in the flexible line so that it naturally wants to stay away from the wheel. I have to use full lock every time I drive it to get in and out of my driveway :(

[76lxhatch]

Yes I swapped them, wouldn't even come close to clearing the tie rod ends with the calipers on the front.

[Evan]

yeah swap them , I did not have to do it on one side because it cleared but then i went to do the other side and it would not clear. Then i realised that i had 2 different tie rod ends. lol

Ev.

[Evan]

I just rang them up and ordered myne. Atleast you can tell somone exactly what you want. They are always very helpful.
Rotor size I would think that they are asking what size you want. 290 or 330mm. If you have got 15 inch rims, the 290 is all you can have, but if you have 17's you can get the 330's on.
I would get slotted, but i dont know about drilled as i have seen many drilled rotors crack. This is usually at track nights where the brakes are getting a work out.
Somone else here may be able to give you a bit more info on drilled rotors.

Evan.

[76lxhatch]

I always buy slotted as there really isn't a down side, have heard the same problems as Evan on drilled

[ls2lxhatch]

It would be quicker to give Hoppers a call and they can explain the options.

[StephenSLR]

slotted for sure!

If you were just street driving is slotted a waste of extra money?

I'd like any opinions for or against.

s

[76lxhatch]

There's not really a down side to slotted rotors (whereas cross drilling can potentially be a problem). Its more about repeat performance than outright braking power and for the minimal price difference (if any) I always use them on my good cars. I do have occasion to drive down steep and winding hills which test braking capacity so I figure its worth it, but I can't see how anyone could call you silly for using plain rotors on a street car, they should be perfectly adequate.

[TerrA LX]

There's not really a down side to slotted rotors (whereas cross drilling can potentially be a problem).

Try getting them machined.

[StephenSLR]

I found some notes I cut/paste from a few emails with Peter from Hopper's.

It was a while back - Simmon's was still in business at the time and the wrecker I bought my UC front cross member from told me that I could use Commodore brakes - not so!

The prices quoted would be out of date.

s

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Yes the problem with the older Simmons wheels is that they didnt allow clearance over big brakes and the ring of nuts holding the rims to the centre extend too far in.

They just touch the outer of our calliper. Its even worse with 4 piston callipers.

An 8mm wheel spacer pushes them out enough to clear.

If the wheels are not yet ordered Simmons will now apparently make the rim offsets differently to move the nuts further out, i.e. the inner rim deeper and the outer rim less deep with an accompanying thicker centre hub.

Basically we don’t want anything further in past the hub face right out to the rim itself.

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Sorry but your wrecker is wrong, Commodore rotors go on but the callipers will not fit a Torana stub no matter how you mix bits.

The Torana cradle is made for a 14 mm solid disc not a 22mm vented disc for starters.

Our 290mm by 28 thick kit is not made from any Holden parts like VT, the rotors are actually AU3 Ford ex DBA drilled from blanks and the callipers std. AU3 new ex PBR . Doing it this way is a straight bolt onto all Torana stubs LC to UC, we mount the callipers to the rear but all then bolts right on with no clearance issues, all misses the bump in the crossmember and the control arms.

No cutting or grinding needed in any way. Std master and booster all fine.

We do all stud patterns from stock so Commodore is fine.

The reason they cost more is firstly because of the extra brackets but also we have to buy brand new Falcon callipers ex PBR whereas the Commodore callipers come nice and cheap ex HSV where they take them off new cars for the really big upgrades.

The good news is we can have the Sports callipers in Red, Yellow, Black or std. alloy at the same price.

Everything is there and it all comes with an Engineers Report.

Std. master cyl. and booster are fine.

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1/ I think what you call the anchor bracket is same thing as we call the cradle, i.e. the cradle is the carrier that bolts to the stub axle, the calliper body is the bit with the hydraulic piston in it.

The Torana calliper mounts on the stub axle are 88.9mm apart and the Commodore mounts 76mm apart so the cradles can’t be swapped.

The Torana Late UC calliper body that looks like a Commodore body is not wide enough to fit over the thicker 22mm disc.

The early UC calliper is totally different and looks like a late HX early HZ calliper.

2/ We now do a kit that keeps the hub face position identical to the original LH/LX/UC position so we do not change the track at all. As I said before, Simmons can also keep the track identical with no wheel spacer by making their hub a bit thicker and setting the rim halfs deeper in on the inner and less out on the outer.(i.e. they move the spokes out a bit but keep the tyres in the same spot.

If you are buying new wheels tell them to allow for calliper clearance, your track need not alter at all.

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Commodore 15 inch wheels are fine as long as you keep the std Torana stubs and use our 290mm kit.

If you have fitted HQ stubs we make it a 300mm kit as the calliper mounts are further out and this needs 16 inch wheels to fit.

We don’t like HQ stubs on Torana's in any case as this causes bumpsteer and a 1.5 degree change in kingpin inclination.

Keep Torana std. Disc stubs if you can.

Lastly watch out if fitting dropped stubs as this moves the tierod end nearly 3 inches down and then they certainly will hit the wheels when commodore offsets in 15 inch sizes are used.

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If you are going Commodore pattern in any case I would just leave the whole Commodore rear discs as they are, just get the diff narrowed and set up with Torana coil mounts etc.

The Commodore rear discs are solid but quite ok for this weight of car, they cope with Statesman's etc. 70% of the brakes are on the front so the rear doesn’t work hard and even now new cars like VT/VZ and BA only use solid rotors, even the SS and XR8 std. cars.

We have done a few Torana's with Commodore diffs lately and they are almost as strong as a 9 inch with a lot less weight. The V8 28 spline 4 pinion LSD diffs are plenty strong enough for what you want and have discs std.

If going disc rear then remove your residual valve and change your proportioning valve for rear disc pressures.

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1/ My diff guy who knows about all these things tells me that the Commodore diff centre housing is actually cast STEEL not Cast Iron and that provided they use the correct wire in their MIG welder its all fine. (he doesn’t use stick welder for this) He's done dozens of them and never had a comeback.

2/ The residual valve lives in the master cylinder under the brass seat in the lines to the rear brakes.

You undo the brake pipe tube nut, this exposes the brass seat, you screw a small self tapper into the centre hole and use pliers to pull the seat out. Take the little rubber valve and spring and discard them, refit the brass seat and so on.

3/ Proportioning valve, if you can get a HZ 4 wheel disc valve and its all good.
It’s a straight swap but not made new any more.
If you can’t find one then an adjustable valve needed.
(The point of the valve is to stop rear lockup under any circumstances so the car doesn’t spin out when the rears lock) In this case fit a LC/LJ brake fail switch that doesn’t have the prop valve bit and all will be good.

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I thought I knew the offsets for Ford AU/BA but I checked with my local tyre guy who confirms

AU/BA and Commodore up to VX are the same offset at 38mm from centre of rim to hub face.
Later VY/VZ commodores seem to be closer to 42mm

HQ to WB are 6mm as are Ford up to EL.

Seems that Commodore or AU rims will basically end up the same but gives a choice of patterns.

We have done a UC here that left with 15 by 6 std steel wheels so I know it fits.

This will actually move the track IN from std Torana 32mm when used with our kit.

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The proportioning valve brake fail combined switch is the cylindrical alloy unit that lives below the master cylinder.
On Torana's it has 5 lines, one 3/6 fitting in the front top and two 3/16 out to the front wheels.
one 1/4 fitting in the top rear and one 1/4 out to the rear brakes (all with 3/16 diameter tube)

We have adjsutable prop. valves at $280

We have reconditioned LC/LJ brake fail switches at $80 each.

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yes that switch is your brake fail warning light, the light on the dash serves both purposes, brake fail and handbrake.

If one side loses pressure due to loss of brake fluid the internal piston moves across, contacts the pin in the switch and makes an earth circuit to bring the light on the dash on. LC/LJ had only this switch but LH/LX had the prop. valve built into the tail of the switch.

An adjustable prop. valve is around 100mm long and circular, 3/8 unf fitting "in" the side inlet and 1/4 unf "out " the end, adjuster nut the other end.
It can be set during road testing to stop rear pressure reaching the point of lockup.

I trust we have now answered all your questions

Front discs:

HOPPERS STOPPERS

TORANA'S - LC to UC and HR stubs

Included in Kit:

· Pair 290 mm Disc Rotors and Twin Piston Calipers

· Set Semi - Metallic Brake Pads

· Caliper mount kit with Bolts

· Pair Conversion hubs made from K1045 Billet steel fitted with bearing cups and Genuine Holden wheel studs

· Pair custom Brake Hoses and copper washers

· Full Fitting Instructions

Rear Disc brakes:

The rear universal kit we did in the current Street Machine will fit LH to UC but not LC/LJ.

This kit is based on 280 by 20 thick VS HSV rear rotors which are really 20mm thick vented versions of the normal 280 by 10 solid stuff used from VB to VS.

The trick is the external side pull handbrake which makes it more adaptable to fitting to drum rears.

They will work better than std. Comm rears being vented but if you already have the solid rears these are still not too bad.
If its not an extreme car then a std. Comm diff narrower with the solid rotors will be ok.

Either needs 15 inch wheels to fit and if you are going all out to 17's we can do it same price with a 315 diameter version using VT/VZ rear rotors.

The solid rear rotors will be fine, those brakes do stop a VS 5.0 litre Statesman ok.

Honestly, just get that std. diff narrowed and use the std internal handbrake. If you are not racing the car it will be ok.

Use a VN handbrake cable and shorten it a bit at the front equaliser with a spacer and it should be good.

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Edited by StephenSLR, 16 February 2010 - 05:34 PM.