258 replies to this topic

[V-SLR5000-P]

You better check your stats brother how many Bathurst's did Monaros win compared to Toranas 

Monaros won every Bathurst  500 they were entered in. 100% success rate over the Falcon; simply can't do better than that.

 

Some toranas are muscle cars some are not, it really depends on the drivetrain 

 

Agreed.

[yel327]

Its all just wishful thinking.

The good news is fraud never made one here either. The closest they got was a 4door taxi, and no 4 door could be considered a muscle car.

No fat arse foulcan could pull a sailor off yer sister, so shit out of luck there.

The closest we got was a 350HT. but no Torana ever deserved to be called a muscle car.

In a rice pudding skin pulling contest, most would get smoked by an Austin Kimberley.

 

I do agree with Gene and a few others that we aren't American so not the same. But in essence Wot is also right that we only really have two cars in Australia that qualify as Muscle Cars in the pure sense:

 

HK GTS327 and HT/HG GTS350 manual.

 

If history had been different the XU1 from around mid 1972 would have qualified as it would have been a V8.

 

Other stuff may fit as a technicality but mostly because the rest are sedans they are don't count. The only other car that you might consider is the XA GT Coupe's with the 4V Cleveland engine (RPO83).
 

[yel327]

You haven't left too many out Ian, I think the biggest omission you made is 340ci or 360ci Chargers. I wouldn't be including any post ADR27A introduction cars so that leaves the limited amount of 5.0L Hatchbacks built prior to June 1976. I'd also not include any 302 XA-XC coupes, only 351 versions in your list.

[Redslur]

Aussie muscle cars is the term I would use.  Why do we always relate back to the Yanks!!!!!

[wot179]

Aussie muscle cars is the term I would use.  Why do we always relate back to the Yanks!!!!!

Well its their term that has been adopted.

[Ice]

pfftttt, the true muscle car era in Australia began with the release of the VN commodore

Thats prob your style

[yel327]

Byron, I only added GT Hardtop to my list because they are the top spec Ford coupe, Ford also made a V8 Pursuit 1960 something,  it should be counted on the list...... Monaro 307/308 don't make the list because there are higher performance models in the GTS 327/350 ....

 

Just saying  

 

I agree with you - I missed the GT bit just read hardtop which means no 302's. GMH also stuffed up the HT-HG GTS350 a bit by offering the lower spec LM1 engine in the auto whereas the manual was the higher performance L48. So a HT-HG "GTS350" doesn't automatically become a Muscle Car - it has to be a manual one. An auto GTS350 really should have been treated like a 350 in a HQ LS was - it should have been an engine option on a HT GTS, so effectively an 80837 with option L34 and M35, as the HT GTS350A is much more an 80837 than it is an 81837. From memory the only HT GTS350 manual bits it got standard were the thicker front discs and dual exhaust, the rest was all the same as a 308 auto HT GTS. By HG even the front discs were the same between GTS and GTS350 so it was only the exhaust the auto GTS350 shared with the manual GTS350. Also a HT 308 manual will probably be quicker than a 350 auto in most situations, including straight line and especially through bendy bits as the auto lost the original HK GTS327 suspension whereas a HT V8 GTS still had the good suspension.

[StephenSLR]

Yanks made muscle cars,

We have tough cars lol

 

This is true; Street Machine magazine may have perpetuated this myth labelling everything 'muscle' but I don't think any Aus. car is a true muscle car by the yanks definition which is basically a factory installed hi performance big block in a mid 60's to early 70's car that can't brake or handle corners, lol.

 

Who cares!!  We built our cars with good handling and braking for Bathurst; not for hooning in a straight line.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 16 December 2015 - 09:40 AM.

[yel327]

So by the American terminology only a 5L SS hatch and a E55 are muscle cars.

 

HK GTS327 is as it used the engine from the bigger GMH Impala and Parisienne and fulfilled the rest of the criteria as well. HT-HG other than the fact there is a lesser performance engine in the auto works too and it is an evolution on the HK. HQ doesn't as the same engine was available in LS and Statesman. E55 I agree with you but some only see Muscle Cars as 2 door, V8, 4BBL, 4spd, dual exhaust, and E55 was auto only.

 

5.0L SS hatchback doesn't work in a true sense as the 5.0L engine wasn't unique to the SS - it was available on sedans as well. And the 5.0L ADR27A engines were dogs, so only the early ones with HJ style engines are the go.

[StephenSLR]

 

Our govt. killed off what probably would've been our muscle cars back in 72 but we had labelled them 'super cars'.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 16 December 2015 - 10:20 AM.

[yel327]

This is true; Street Machine magazine may have perpetuated this myth labelling everything 'muscle' but I don't think any Aus. car is a true muscle car by the yanks definition which is basically a factory installed hi performance big block in a mid 60's to early 70's car that can't brake or handle corners, lol.

 

Who cares!!  We built our cars with good handling and braking for Bathurst; not for hooning in a straight line.

 

s

 

You are totally forgetting some of the US Muscle that does handle. Like Z28 Camaros, especially the 1970 version. They aren't all big blocks, some of the earlier 60's 327's were pretty good performers when in a smaller car like a Nova - the L65 and L79 engines were good things! Pontiac lead by John DeLorean broke the corporate GM rules of engine size vs vehicle weight when it built the first GTO in 1963, but the Musclecar term really didn't appear until about 1966.

[StephenSLR]

You are totally forgetting some of the US Muscle that does handle. Like Z28 Camaros, especially the 1970 version. They aren't all big blocks, some of the earlier 60's 327's were pretty good performers when in a smaller car like a Nova - the L65 and L79 engines were good things! Pontiac lead by John DeLorean broke the corporate GM rules of engine size vs vehicle weight when it built the first GTO in 1963, but the Musclecar term really didn't appear until about 1966.

 

Yeah, there are exceptions to the rule but in general muscle cars are pigs to drive; they look good, sound good, overcompensate for a small penis but I don't rate many of them as good as some of our cars. Many in the US don't consider Mustangs & Corvettes muscle cars either, they call them pony cars, even though quite a few of them fill the 2 door, V8, 4BBL, 4spd, dual exhaust criteria.

Was all US muscle 4 speed though?

 

Personally I don't see most of our Aus. cars as muscle cars in the US sense of the word; yeah the HK GTS is a good contender and maybe some of our 350's and I have no problem if people consider our Bathurst cars as 'muscle'; the term does suit them when compared to the average road vehicle.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 16 December 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[yel327]

Agree. Anything here after 1972 is very different though as the cars prior to 1973 were built to race as they were, even if the only GMH product that won Bathurst as a standard road car was the HK GTS327 - had one of the HDRT cars won and not McPhee (or West depending what view of history you take) not even the HK would hold that distinction.

[wot179]

There are very few Vettes or pustangs that could be considered muscle cars.

[rexy]

You haven't left too many out Ian, I think the biggest omission you made is 340ci or 360ci Chargers. I wouldn't be including any post ADR27A introduction cars so that leaves the limited amount of 5.0L Hatchbacks built prior to June 1976. I'd also not include any 302 XA-XC coupes, only 351 versions in your list.

So by this logic the only chevelle that qualifies as a muscle car is the 454 powered one?

[xu2308]

If the Super Car Scare had not of happened and we progressed on as is, the Aussie Muscle Cars to follow would of been awesome.

 

We still got the HSV W427 and HSV VF GTS 430KW Machine.

[wot179]

So by this logic the only chevelle that qualifies as a muscle car is the 454 powered one?

I think you would say any big block 4 speed Chevelle would fit the mould.