244 replies to this topic

[yel327]

LX sunchooks have TORANA on the compliance tags.

The truth is that all those pussboxes are Commodores no matter how much you don't want them to be.

 

That I think is an error, ie Torana on Sunbird ADR tag. GMH went to great lengths not to call it a Torana, just like they did for Statesman (not calling it a Holden) and Calais (not Commodore).

 

There is absolutely no way a V2 or VZ Monaro or any VU onwards ute is a Commodore no matter how hard anyone tries to make them one!
 

[yel327]

Byron maybe, maybe not, it.s just how you call it.....   If an R8 isn't a Commodore, you can frOck me....  as I said before, I really think you are splitting hairs....   XU-1 doesn't need torana written on it, because we know what it is ....    Please tell me the difference between a Belmont and a Kingswood ..  This I can't wait to hear.. and I hope you got more than having belmont on the on the compliance plate as defining a new car...  

 

HSV's are hard. technically they aren't a Holden, they are a HSV but I do get the way people look at them as what HSV means. Technically a HSV is as distinct from a Holden as a Lexus is from a Toyota. However a HSV car is not a Commodore, except maybe those cars that GMH/Holden subcontracted HSV to make for them eg VL GroupA Walkinshaw. You'd have to ask a HSV guru how thos ecars are seen (as in are they a Commodore or not).

 

Belmont is to Kingswood what S is to SL. They are a luxury level not a car. The car is a Holden, so you have Holden Belmont, just like you have Torana S and Holden Kingswood like Torana SL. The difference also depends upon what body style you refer to and what options it has, ie Belmont ute vs Kingswood ute is different to Belmont wagon vs Kingswood wagon. The options come in in things like for example if you optioned an M21/M22 Saginaw in a HT 6cyl Kingswood - ute got a rubber boot and buckets, sedan/wagon got console shift and buckets. Essentially a Belmont is a base model. Kingswood has more chrome and more features standard.   
 

[yel327]

And to add........   Tell me this : is a GTS 186, or  327 two totally different cars, or are they the same car with a varied specification ..  

 

GTS is a 186S and you could only option a 307 in HK GTS. In HT-HG V8 GTS is a different model altogether and came standard with 253 and M21. I guess the modern parallel is SV6 and SS, same basic spec but a different driveline which brings other options with it.

 

GTS327/GTS350 is a totally different car, and changes drastically again in HT-HG (especially HG) if you optioned an auto. 

[yel327]

What was the original ute called? The VN or VG or whatever they called them ?

 

VG-VS are odd, the S Ute has Commodore badging on the strip on the front guard in VS (I think the rest are the same) but the Ute doesn't and the VSIII sales brochure never calls them Commodore Ute. The naming is always Holden Ute. I've never understood the Commodore badge on the S front guard bump strip, only logical answer is they didn't bother making the little piece of strip with Holden on it just for S ute.

 

Even the paint chart for VTII Commodore, Calais and VSIII Ute says: "Holden Commodore, Calais and Ute".

 

I no longer have a VG-VS Ute owners manual but from memory they never had Commodore on them either. 

[RallyRed]

Yeah, would be good to see the Commodore continue. 

 

I understand that the guy behind it has had some great success rescuing un-rescue-able automotive  type companies in Europe.

He has also had a couple of clangers.Guess that comes with the territory.

He is also quite clear that he requires Governments ( regardless of the country) to come along for the ride.....so we will see how he goes here.

 

Regarding the other discussion about "Commmodores" - I'm along the lines of saying - I'm with Chaos on this one.

 

Take your Commodore, HSV, Calais , Berlina ( when they were around)  or the new VE type Blue Meanie to get parts/repiars and I'd be thinking 90% of the parts you buy/work you get done, would be Commodore parts/ or use Commodore parts.

e.g you want a rear trailing arm, or a blinker switch or a bootlid,...most are Commodore parts.

 

The other thing to ponder with the typical 4 door is that I imagine they all come down the production line using Commodore stampings and the robots are programmed to weld them together as a Commodore....as the line progresses they may be tweaked to be something more upmarket?  They are all commodes early on.

 

Looks like a duck, and goes quack etc.

 

However, Yel and others are correct  IMHO,  the Commodore term for all the variants is not technically correct.

 

p.s. - just had a look downstairs and my VE V8 Calais,  compliance plate doesnt even say Holden,let alone Commodore!.....just the VE8EX69 and then all the other bits.

[yel327]

I do get people liking to generalise, but technically Commodore is only applicable to some cars. Another good example is the Toyota Corolla assembled in the GMH Dandenong assembly plant alongside Holden Novas. Are the Toyotas Novas? No, and vice versa.  

[yel327]

100% I can assure you a completely original unmolested LX sunchook I owned (I bought it off original owner) had TORANA on the compliance plate. It had the 4cyl opal motor. That isn't an error, it is fact.

Dude, them shitters are all Commodores. Period.

 

I believe you, they all have it but it is an error by GMH manufacturing I believe, they aren't Toranas.

 

They are not Commodores, period, except in the imagination of people who like to generalise things. This is an undeniable fact. The biggest Elephant in the room is the Monaro and for V2 they did the same as they did in HK. Originally for HK the coupes were to Kingswood Coupe and either Premier coupe or Kingswood GTS or something like that (I think they changed their minds a few times) and the top gun was the GTS Special. They chose to drop the association with the sedans and call them Monaro, Monaro GTS and Monaro GTS327. V2 was the same, originally it was to be Commodore Coupe but they decided they were not to be a Commodore and they called them Monaro CV6 and Monaro CV8. 

[Shiney005]

Gets delivered to HSV factory. Has a few bits and pieces of dress up crap bolted on.

Interior, rims, brakes, Magnatec suspension, gear ratios, oil coolers, body kit, exhaust, engine................

[76lxhatch]

Just because Holden decided to drop the name Commodore and call them Monaro doesn't mean they are not a Commodore.

 

Actually, that's exactly what it means. Holden chooses what to name its product.

 

 

Sure from a practical perspective they are essentially the same thing, but its not the name they were given. By that logic there are a number of different models of GM vehicles in the US that are also Commodores - again they are practically the same thing, but that's not what they are called.