244 replies to this topic

[Dasman56]

You missed the point Ian as you so frequently do.
Please compare apples with apples.

The point is wages are not the reason the car industry is going.

The same year Toyota Aust announced they are shutting they made a 200 mill profit.

Magical robots from the jetsons do not build the bloody cars.

People assemble the car, they have qualifications, they have experience, they have a clue.

AND THEY DON'T BLOODY MAKE $45Hr

[RallyRed]

waaaaaay offffff topic kids....but hey I'm on board.

 

Everyone should work for nothing.....except me.

 

It's a very tired old argument...hear what someone earns, and try and reconcile why get that, versus what someone else gets.

Its a stupid argument..as onlookers never really have the facts as they are, for both sides of the story.

 

What about those blokes getting $300k working on gas rigs??...bastards, way overpaid!.

 

In 2013, a good mate's son, fresh out of his apprenticeship, applied for a eleco / techo job on a rig. He was successful.

A large international company with many rigs all around the world, offering seriously generous pay and conditions.

Typically drilling offshore in god knows where. Yep, the offer was $250k U.S tax free. Fly you off the rig to a city of your choosing each swing.

A very mixed international crew on board each rig, so where you flew to was of no concern to them, as someone else was probably from there anyway.

Everyone was saying wow, good on him, but how can that sort of coin, let alone the free biz. class trips home every 12 weeks, be possibly justified.?

It was all bells and whistles for about 18m and he was living high. And also looking to the future. Good kid, good tradie and a fat bank balance.

Then they moved him to the next rig in some shithole country where there were pirates and racial type infights onboard  the rig every second day.

Stabbings were the normal fare apparently.

Suddenly he seriously feared for his life each day, and was so shit scared of getting stabbed in bed or ""slipping over the side one night - accident of course"" that he rang his parents and said he was chucking it in and coming home. 

He did.

 

Most people only remember, or know, that this kid was pulling $300k....bastard.

 

This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread title....but hey..........lets not get too serious

[kiwi-lilj]

Fuk Holden, we can all buy Hyundai Utes soon.

 image.jpeg   101.92K   0 downloads

I am off to start creating a forum for them now.

[S pack]

Extract from Toyota Australia's 2014 Sustainability Report

 

Announcement of closure

The announcement to stop building cars in Australia by the end of 2017 and transition to a national sales and distribution company was extremely difficult. The decision was not based on any single factor but driven by a range of external influences including the unfavourable Australian dollar making exports unviable, the high costs of manufacturing and low economies of scale for vehicle production and our local supplier base. For these reasons, combined with Australia being one of the most open and fragmented automotive markets in the world and increased competitiveness due to current and future free trade agreements, it was determined it was no longer viable for Toyota to continue building cars in Australia.

[RallyRed]

this is sensible, logical...and true.  ( sadly)

I sure feel sorry for those uneducated & selfish piles of shit earning $45/hour to tighten wheel nuts.  (tongue firmly glued to inside of cheek)

 

This country was built on Manufacturing and these same piles of shit paved the way for the greatness that is now Australia.

Local economies change, structures change, world economies change, policies change....all these things affect the viability of manufacturing locally versus importing.  In 20 years time I have little doubt that we'll look back and ask how the frOck we allowed Manufacturing here to be murdered like it was.  IMHFO, our politicians have collectively failed to have the foresight to recognise this and protect something all decent Australians are/were/should be proud of.

[MARKL]

Ian and Daz, I agree with you guys's 100%. The guy on the production is just doing his job and shouldn't be vilified for earning a living. I hear people complaining what other's earn and how others should take a pay cut; practice what you preach I say, go see your boss tomorrow and ask for a pay cut. Just do it on principle, for the good of the economy and your company...what no taker's? 

 

The Toyota statement was very clear, it was cost of manufacturing. The $Aus  was trading above parity with the $US when that statement was made, the dollar has dropped by a third since then, effectively making manufacturing much, much cheaper. Holden has previously said 70c was the magic number for it to be viable. It always made me laugh that Tone would go on about stopping the boats and national security. At the same time he and that dumb shit Hockey played chicken with two of the biggest companies in the world, Toyota and GM, and we all lost. It may be all good while we are riding the commodities boom and are earning big $$$ for digging shit out of the ground what happens if the commodity boom ends? We will need an alternative income stream, other employment options for people...what the commodity boom is over, oh fu_k where is that manufacturing sector now? And look there is line of boats queued up because we don't make anything here anymore.

 

Both parties have fu_cked us over here, Labor were not much better but they did appear to recognize there was a problem with the two speed economy, that the mining boom was damaging other sectors and were prepared to try and do something about it (between backstabbing each other for the right to sit in the big chair). The Libs refused to deal with manufacturing sector, demonising the workers on the line and the foreign multinationals whilst still giving massive subsidies to the mining sector - pay attention the section of the economy that was in the biggest boom in history, the sector that was creating structural changes in the rest of the economy because of the high $Aus were getting subsidies. Ohh and multinationals investing in mining is good so we will bend over for them. Foreign investment in your economy can be very good but it should be targeted to the areas you need to grow or where you don't have sufficient skills, technology or capital to get it running - an example of this would be say car manufacturing which requires large amounts of capital and technology to stay with current developments versus mining where Australia is already incredibly good at it.

 

The failure was the pollies and Captain's Pick Tone and the bumbling Hockey carry by far the most blame, not the person on the assembly line trying to put a roof over his families head and a meal on the table. 

[Ice]

Mark i totally agree with your statement but the country was already on the down side before Tony and Joe got the reins
remember 7 years of bumbling ALP that didnt help one bit

[MARKL]

I agree Gene I am not defending Labor, I would suggest that both sides, from the second half of Howard, through Krudd/Gillard/KRudd, Tone, were lazy and didn't do enough to ensure Australia had a strong diversified economy. They all got sucked into the mining boom and the the easy politics of a higher dollar. It made TVs and cars cheap and the voter's were happy...but I fear we will have to pay the piper at some point and neither side did a good job for the country or average working, tax paying Australians.

 

At some point politics moved from managing and reforming the economy - take introduction of GST (Howard) and the Button Plan (Hawke) to piss weak slogans such as 'Kevin 07' and 'stop the boats'. I fear we won't have much to show for this boom aside from high house prices.

 

[Rockoz]

Not the old mining subsidies thing again.

Every time I look into that all I can find is the diesel rebate.

Is there any other so called subsidy to the miners?

 

Farmers get the diesel subsidy too.

Want to take it off them as well?

[Shiney005]

Now now. Steady up.  The diesel rebate exists for machines that don't contribute to road degradation. Fuel taxes are there to pay for the roads after all. That's why fisherman receive it as well.

[Shiney005]

That's what I was getting at DJ. A few of the smaller mines roadtrain ore (and coal) but I guess they don't get the rebate for the diesel used in them. At least not all of it anyway. I might sneak a bit into the Landcruiser now and then.
Getting back on topic, I think that brand snobbery has a bit to do with it as well. Commodores and Falcons are just bogans cars after all. I am taking the piss here of course. I've been driving them since the 80s. I love them and I am very sad to see them go. (But not Camrys)

Edited by Shiney005, 15 January 2016 - 06:52 PM.

[MARKL]

 

Not the old mining subsidies thing again.

Every time I look into that all I can find is the diesel rebate.

Is there any other so called subsidy to the miners?

 

Farmers get the diesel subsidy too.

Want to take it off them as well?

 

Not really my main point. My point was:

1 - the guy/girl working on the production line isn't responsible economic policy. Other people are paid considerably more than them to make those big decisions and they should be making forward looking decisions that benefit the whole economy.

 

2 - the government was lazy (both sides). When it should have been concentrating on strengthening the overall economy, managing the two speed effect of the mining boom on the economy by protecting those industries that were being decimated by the temporary high dollar...it failed.

 

I found this anyhow, grants and subsidies take many forms - yes diesel but also state funded infrastructure (so much for user pays and end of the age of entitlement) but there is no question that they run into billions of dollars...

 

http://www.tai.org.a...age-entitlement

 

 

MARkL, Thank you for your post...  great to hear someone speaking on behalf of others ....    There is always gonna a be a bunch of hard done by selfish winging pricks that carry on about someone earning more than them...  just a hint to them..  join the pricks your winging about if you think they have it so good...  

 

But back to the topic ....  is the glass 1/2 empty or 1/2 full....  do we want an Australian Car of some sorts and the manufacturing that goes with it....  or do we let old mate know now that he is wasting his time ... ???   Fuk me, the guy is trying to save the Commodore, and Australian jobs...  you think most people would get behind him and give it one almighty go....  instead of complaining ...

 

This guy is talking about changes, to what is already a World Class car....  Fuk GM, this guy is a Euro, Imagine 2018 Audi powered 4 wheel drive Commodore Sedans and Wagons .... There's not a lot to compete against in this category....   

 

I hope he gets the chance to have a go, and I hope Australia from our Government to the rest of us give him at least the same support we gave GM..... and hopefully we can still be one of the few Countries that are skilled enough to make their own fuking car ..............  

 

Cheers Ian, I just don't like seeing the little guy on the production line being demonised for earning an average wage.

[Ice]

Gee that a lot of coin Mark

[Redzone]

And the aussie dollar is now pulling 65 us cents. The commodities boom is well and truly over!

Oh and

http://www.infowars....tinue-to-crash/

[Rockoz]

Thats a great poster.

Its what initiated my search into the subsidies.

Their figures correlate to the diesel subsidy so its pretty much invalid.

 

Nowhere have I said that people are not entitled to earn a decent wage.

My point is that the wage increases for unskilled workers have increased more than the wages of skilled workers.

The CFMEU being the biggest union, and representing more unskilled workers than skilled, initiated this push.

 

There are some places where the unskilled do earn less than the skilled.

I signed my first EBA type document around 1996.

The labourers on that job took home about 10 bucks less a week than the tradies.

Put an unskilled worker through a short course, and put him in a front end loader and he  earned the same as a tradie.

Part of my point is there is now little incentive for a young bloke to learn a trade.

 

Whilst there is a union push for increased wages for unskilled workers, the manufacturing industry will continue to decline.

And few companies will consider expanding or opening up manufacturing due to the high cost of unskilled workers.

 

There will be those here that will argue about the conditions and physical stuff involved in the job.

But when it boils down to it, if the worker improves himself he gets a better job.

 

Bit like the guy at the bottom of the pit passing buckets of shit up.

He doesnt take shit from anyone but he is still at the bottom.

[orangeLJ]

That infographic is pretty...

But id be wary of trusting something that comes from an organisation funded and run by one side of the argument... (I.e. Unions...)