53 replies to this topic

[N/A-PWR]

Need a powerful engine for street and racetrack,

 

look no further than the 'Little Paw' engine block, made from cast iron,

 

and has beefier cast iron around lifters, extra 6 head studs, bigger cam tunnel,

 

4 bolt mains, better cooling, better oil delivery, two deck heights,

 

3-4 times thicker cylinder walls than GMH factory blocks:-

 

http://www.torque-po...e_paw_block.htm

 

http://www.torque-po...e_paw_block.htm

 

 

 

More info here:-

 

http://www.aussiev8....lock-specs.html

 

 

 

some quotes taken from other media.

[Shiney005]

Looks like aluminium to me.

[N/A-PWR]

yes, had me wondering about that too Laurie,

 

shiney, alloy machining marks and reflection, hmm. 

Maybe that is the fine tuning.

[N/A-PWR]

Just noticed the webbing in the alloy photo's up there ^^^,

 

verses the non-webbing in the cast iron ones.

So we have two versions then?

[SA EH]

Top looks iron, lower looks alloy.

2 different blocks?

Where's the webbing in the top one?

Snap Dave.

Edited by SA EH, 09 March 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[N/A-PWR]

It's Laurie's fault Jonesy,
 
made me look harder at the big boy's toys. 

Snap Dave.

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if we can customize additions like a dual date code etc?

Edited by NA-PWR, 09 March 2016 - 04:07 PM.

[SA EH]

Bloody Laurie....

Great piece of machinery either way.
Onwards & upwards.

[N/A-PWR]

and the Holy grail L6 

Onwards & upwards.

[N/A-PWR]

Crikie, found the Alloy, 'Big Paw' 308-500 cubic inch:-

 

http://www.torque-po...u/big_paw11.htm

http://www.torque-po...u/big_paw11.htm

 

still needs a tappet cover oil catchment can, hmm?

 

or is that a breather with residues catchment. 

 

 

 

 

 

So increasing the bore diametre reduces the cylinder wall thickness,

 

 that is OK to a limit of how much compression and boost you want,

 

as there is cylinder wall expansion problems the higher forces in there?

Edited by NA-PWR, 09 March 2016 - 04:33 PM.

[N/A-PWR]

 

\as there is cylinder wall expansion problems sealing the rings of the higher compression forces?

 

 

I have heard that Drag racers use better cylinder wall metals for this job.

 

 

 

We could use special sleeves in the thicker bore block.

[ozyozyozy]

They have thicker decks, thicker bore walls, more meat around the rear main.
Available in 4.0inch all the way to 4.125 i think.
They are iron, but heard they were looking at an alloy version or may have prototyped one.
Can use standard heads or the torque power heads with extra head bolts.

These guys have done a fantastic job designing and building these.
I Think they can be taken to 440cubes.
All standard holden bolt on ancileries fit.

[gtrboyy]

They look really good bad part is need a really serious engine to warrant expense of going to one of these..way overkill for streetcar or occasional drag racer.

 

Would be nice if holden parts like alloy heads etc could be more competitively priced like ls market or ol' chev engines...then we'd see more holden builds instead of ls conversions lol.

 

That being said would love a big cube monster in lightweight small car...make it super tame,small stally with tall gears & let the torque wave do all the work

Edited by gtrboyy, 10 March 2016 - 03:25 AM.

[ozyozyozy]

Also the torque power block can come with a larger roller bearing cam bearings, cams for that are only available through them, stops camshafts bendin under high spring pressures.

Hear what your saying gtrboyy, but to get the same standard of alloy head for a chev you can actually pay more.
The holden head shits on alot of the chev heads available, better ports better valve angle.

[N/A-PWR]

Couple of links for the heads:-

 

http://www.torque-po...h3_complete.htm

 

coming soon:-

 

http://www.torque-po...linder_head.htm

[gtrboyy]

Actually...I think much better value getting iron heads done by hpe,tk engines or even mce...they can make more power than we could ever use on street or strip They've all come a long way with great results last few years.

 

holden blocks getting old & cap walk is major issue on big engines...drysump setups all the rage now.

 

sadly prices for droolworthy tp blocks will stay high as not enough of us holden tragics out there to sell in volumes to warrant lower pricing.

 

Big kudo's for Torque-power still developing parts for our dear holden eights!!!!!

[cameron]

Actually...I think much better value getting iron heads done by hpe,tk engines or even mce...they can make more power than we could ever use on street or strip They've all come a long way with great results last few years.

 

holden blocks getting old & cap walk is major issue on big engines...drysump setups all the rage now.

 

sadly prices for droolworthy tp blocks will stay high as not enough of us holden tragics out there to sell in volumes to warrant lower pricing.

 

Big kudo's for Torque-power still developing parts for our dear holden eights!!!!!

 

If they where affordable I am sure they would sell many more. imo they look good. Trouble with every holden engine I have built it has cost me close to double what a chev would with more power and more options. Hard to stay with the local engine when build value is clearly against it.

 

Cameron

[Punchy]

If they where affordable I am sure they would sell many more. imo they look good. Trouble with every holden engine I have built it has cost me close to double what a chev would with more power and more options. Hard to stay with the local engine when build value is clearly against it.

 

Cameron

Agreed,

 

When the aussie dollar was on parity with the Greenback a couple years ago, most people cottoned on to the fact that American engines, crate engines even with more features and power were now available and competing against the aussie product.

At the time why would you pay 15 -25K for an engine here when you could get it across the pond for much less.

 

Even still, I Like the TP product, probably works a treat, but comparing apples to apples, 2 -2.5k for a rock solid Dart / GM Performance iron block / LSX, that will handle up to 2500HP for the money, I know where I'm shopping.

 

Just every time the aussie components suffer due to manufacturing costs and low distribution rates. But its a chicken v egg issue ( do you lower the margins to increase turnover which increases profits. I know most companies that subscribe to a high margin philosophy usually go bust - Cept for Bill gates - he's a crunt )

 

End of the day is tho...How long is it going to be before the requirement for holden tech of this nature dies - Plenty of substitute engines for transplant and power ups available now 

[ozyozyozy]

With all the chev stuff around, ex nascar and LS equipment, people are moving away from holden, which is sad but it is cheaper.
Unfortunately a number of race classes still require people to use a holden based engine which makes it hard, by the time its legal to use something else, they have sunk so much money into the holden and it becomes stupid to change.

[LXCHEV]

Pretty sure Bubba is running one of these Torque Power blocks in his All Race commodore (twin turbo) - runs 8's. Fastest Holden powered car at last years Drag Challenge. Definitely a good bit of gear.

[gtrboyy]

That dude sure knows how to break things in style so tp blocks will be well tested!!!

 

If I didn't have so much holden gear leftover to build another 2-3 cars I'd probably gone ls route like others despite ingrained love of efi holden eights & triple webbered 202's

[TK383]

I'm gonna disagree with the 'chev is cheaper' thing - to an extent.

The way the au$ is at the moment the cost to build a 600HP holden or SBC is pretty similar, may even favour the holden.

Simply because the chev will need to be built almost entirely from aftermarket parts & those parts aren't currently as cheap as they were.

Pretty much the only stock part you can use for a chev is the block & even they are borderline at 600hp & getting thin on the ground for a std bore good condition 010 block.

Holden on the other hand are everywhere, 304 blocks can be had for $300 if you know where to look & $500 any day of the week.

The holden block is tougher than the stock chev blocks, it has it's weaknesses but they can be overcome quite cheaply - main cap walk can be fixed with 1/2" cleveland main studs, oilng issues for a street/strip setup cured with a few simple mods & 1 extra oil line, bore integrity sorted with a grout fill & bingo you've got a block that'll cope with 600+hp no problem for a fraction of the cost of an aftermarket chev block.

 

For the chev you'll need aftermarket heads + some seat & grinder work (they are all pretty lacklustre out the box).

For the holden a set of VN iron heads can do the job for pocket change.

Yes it'll cost more to reco & port the holden heads, but that is offset by the initial cost difference.

Parts to fill the heads cost the same.

 

Holden stroker cranks are now down to not much more than chev stuff, rods cost the same & pistons cost the same.

 

Cams cost a little more, lifters cost the same.

 

Intakes cost more, but pick the right one & there is only minimal porting required.

 

All up it works out pretty close.

 

LS are another matter, they can make the HP easier & cheaper - but that is offset by conversion costs which will blow out the overall cost to similar to a drop in holden engine anyway.

 

I'm not seeing any drop in demand for holden engines, in fact I think demand is increasing, a lot of younger guys are getting into early commos the same way us older guys got into torries/HQ-HZ's etc.

Sticking an LS in an early commo can be done, but it's not the cheapest excersize & many of the young uns want a holden engine in their holden.

I reckon I build 2x as many stroker holdens for early commos as I do for torries/HQ etc.

[TK383]

To illustrate the point I recently built a 355 cube holden (for a torana) with flat tappet cam & iron heads, runs on pump 98 & has tri-y pipes to fit in a torrie.

There is nothing exotic in it:

Scat cast crank

Scat 6" I beam rods

CP pistons

2 bolt mains (1/2" studs), grout fill & oiling mods

High energy sump & modified pickup

Ported VT heads with 2.055 & 1.625" valves

Custom grind solid FT cam in the 260's duration

Scorpion stud rockers

Harrop intake with a match port & runner entry cleanup.

850 quickfuel carb, crane ignition.

Compression in the high 11's

 

Motor made 582hp @7200rpm, 570+hp from 6500-7800rpm, 479ft/lbs @ 5400rpm.

 

In a well set up strip torana that a low 10 second/high 9 second engine.

 

It cost about $18k as a long engine (no carb or ignition).

Edited by TK383, 18 March 2016 - 09:08 AM.

[Redslur]

Sounds like my engine :-0 except mine has a solid roller.  Made very similar power too.

[cameron]

I'm gonna disagree with the 'chev is cheaper' thing - to an extent.

The way the au$ is at the moment the cost to build a 600HP holden or SBC is pretty similar, may even favour the holden.

Simply because the chev will need to be built almost entirely from aftermarket parts & those parts aren't currently as cheap as they were.

Pretty much the only stock part you can use for a chev is the block & even they are borderline at 600hp & getting thin on the ground for a std bore good condition 010 block.

Holden on the other hand are everywhere, 304 blocks can be had for $300 if you know where to look & $500 any day of the week.

The holden block is tougher than the stock chev blocks, it has it's weaknesses but they can be overcome quite cheaply - main cap walk can be fixed with 1/2" cleveland main studs, oilng issues for a street/strip setup cured with a few simple mods & 1 extra oil line, bore integrity sorted with a grout fill & bingo you've got a block that'll cope with 600+hp no problem for a fraction of the cost of an aftermarket chev block.

 

For the chev you'll need aftermarket heads + some seat & grinder work (they are all pretty lacklustre out the box).

For the holden a set of VN iron heads can do the job for pocket change.

Yes it'll cost more to reco & port the holden heads, but that is offset by the initial cost difference.

Parts to fill the heads cost the same.

 

Holden stroker cranks are now down to not much more than chev stuff, rods cost the same & pistons cost the same.

 

Cams cost a little more, lifters cost the same.

 

Intakes cost more, but pick the right one & there is only minimal porting required.

 

All up it works out pretty close.

 

LS are another matter, they can make the HP easier & cheaper - but that is offset by conversion costs which will blow out the overall cost to similar to a drop in holden engine anyway.

 

I'm not seeing any drop in demand for holden engines, in fact I think demand is increasing, a lot of younger guys are getting into early commos the same way us older guys got into torries/HQ-HZ's etc.

Sticking an LS in an early commo can be done, but it's not the cheapest excersize & many of the young uns want a holden engine in their holden.

I reckon I build 2x as many stroker holdens for early commos as I do for torries/HQ etc.

 

As a holden v8 owner I would disagree with that. Over here in WA Active autos do a drive in drive out for commodores with a brand new LSA 560hp complete swapover at $16k. An outright 560hp crate LSA is $10k. A 515Hp LS3 with computer, engine wiring loom along with a brand new magnum 6speed my mate just paid $11500 (for his torrie). Hell I spent $20k just on my holden engine for 530hp and i couldn't touch what they have let alone if they start tweeking them. They are getting 650rwhp when modded and you also have a light aluminum motor and a heap of scope to hot it up. I wished I had gone the LS way as do most of my holden friends who got caught in spending big dollars on our holden engines. For a numbers car it might make sense but not for hp junkies.

 

With rego in WA now allowing LS engines its a no brainer and on the GM crate engine page you have dozens of factory choices for awesome prices. Sellers in the usa sell the GM crates at way below retail and as like my mate you sure do get some bargains and swap stuff is far more common now.

 

http://www.chevrolet...te-engines.html

 

454 LSX into torrie

http://www.gmh-toran...roject-lsx-454/

 

LSA into torrie

http://www.gmh-toran...ic/77664-lohla/