53 replies to this topic

[cameron]

Just another example here is the LSX454 620hp long motor from eagle autos in australia for $17950

http://www.ebay.com....3-/141602634563

 

Or if thats not enough to roll the eyeball in Geelong from Spencers a new LSX440 with 1200hp for $23950

http://www.ebay.com....G-/252239760044

 

Point being any way you look at it the holden simply cant match what these yankee motors offer.

 

Cameron

[ozyozyozy]

20k chev, sump to carby, 700hp 9000rpm ex nascar.
Some are cheaper, some are more depending on spec you want and if it has had a freshen up or has km's on it.
Have seen a chev for 32k was freah built motor, roller cammed, built by hendricks motor sport, just needed power, fuel hook up and oil tank. You cannot build an engine locally to do what this motor can do for that price, not possible.
Friend just bought a ford nascar motor complete with all dry sump parts, 15k.
My holden owes me more than 2 of these motors, and cant do what these can.

My opinion is MOST aftermarket cranks for holden v8's are crap, the ONLY cranks to use if you want it to last and make power is crankshaft rebuilders, either there forged steel or billet, everything else is too heavy or cant handle anything more than some passes at the strip.

An LS motor comes from factory with everything we try to do to our old school chev and holdens.
From the factory they have light crank, light rods, light valve train, in most cases you dont change crank rods or pistons unless your very serious about power due to you make everything heavier.
A heavier rotating mass is bad, takes more effort to swing, creates more load, which means dont rev or windows appear in the block.
LS motors are so easy to fit and reliable, if you dont have an engine to start with and not contsrained by race class rules, its a no brainer to me, as mentioned easy to rego, have experienced this first hand.

[cameron]

ozyozyozy you are dead right I don't race my holden, but regardless of what I was able to spend it simply couldn't compare to an LS build both for cost, power and reliability. I was scared of the LS engines and convinced myself that I could match them by stroking a holden and adding all latest hot up bits and spending a fortune on parts. I wished I didn't because most of my friends have LS engines in much heavier cars and leave me for dead.

 

My mates LS3 is now pushing 500rwhp and he got out of it cheaper than what I spent. It really is just a matter of time before i will have to change over as I can't see the value in trying to make the holden do the impossible without spending ludicrous amounts of money. Now in saying that the TP effort to try to give life to the holden engine is to be given credit. However it probably had more relevance and success if it was available 20yrs ago.

 

Even the LS series has been superseded by the new more powerful direct inj LT series which have been out a few years in the corvette and now camaro, cadillac. For hot-ups or engine builds the old holden will never compare. Chris who is doing the LSX454 with 620hp said in his thread he only paid $12k for the engine and is still under $20k for turn-key install. Try doing that with a holden engine, so unless your a badge driven holden fanboy with buckets of spare cash it makes no sense to pay double or triple for less.

My best mate peter williams just rebuilt his std 308 (because its a numbers 308/4speed ss torrie) it had to remain dead stock due to the fact its the original engine. They replaced everything they could with genuine parts down to the water pump. His final bill was over $9k. Holden engines are crazy prices

 

Cameron

Edited by cameron, 19 March 2016 - 01:57 AM.

[ozyozyozy]

20k chev, sump to carby, 700hp 9000rpm ex nascar.
Some are cheaper, some are more depending on spec you want and if it has had a freshen up or has km's on it.
Have seen a chev for 32k was freah built motor, roller cammed, built by hendricks motor sport, just needed power, fuel hook up and oil tank. You cannot build an engine locally to do what this motor can do for that price, not possible.
Friend just bought a ford nascar motor complete with all dry sump parts, 15k.
My holden owes me more than 2 of these motors, and cant do what these can.

My opinion is MOST aftermarket cranks for holden v8's are crap, the ONLY cranks to use if you want it to last and make power is crankshaft rebuilders, either there forged steel or billet, everything else is too heavy or cant handle anything more than some passes at the strip.

An LS motor comes from factory with everything we try to do to our old school chev and holdens.
From the factory they have light crank, light rods, light valve train, in most cases you dont change crank rods or pistons unless your very serious about power due to you make everything heavier.
A heavier rotating mass is bad, takes more effort to swing, creates more load, which means dont rev or windows appear in the block.
LS motors are so easy to fit and reliable, if you dont have an engine to start with and not contsrained by race class rules, its a no brainer to me, as mentioned easy to rego, have experienced this first hand.

[Shiney005]

You are all comparing apples with oranges anyway. A 1960s 308 Vs a 376 cube motor designed with components from beyond the millenium.
I will be using the 308 for a long time yet because I just love 'em, and I don't need more than 500 horsepower.

[cameron]

You are all comparing apples with oranges anyway. A 1960s 308 Vs a 376 cube motor designed with components from beyond the millenium.
I will be using the 308 for a long time yet because I just love 'em, and I don't need more than 500 horsepower.

 

Shiney005 obviously the LS engines are in another millennium. Being captain obvious they very well should be considering even the revised Holden engine was shut down nearly two decades ago.. The basic LS design has only been around for about 20yrs old vs around 45yrs for the original siamesed port holden (vn engine design is much younger).

 

But neither that or engine size has anything to do with what I was saying. I was talking about value, cost $$$$, weight, reliability and options and unless your made of money or its a numbers car then choosing to modify a holden engine makes no sense when you can buy something that's far cheaper and vastly superior. Obviously that's why Holden also dropped it 16yrs ago in the commodore and used the superior LS engines.

 

Cameron

[myss427]

On you tube and Street Machine there is an LS 457 normally aspirated cranking out 1100 plus horse power, normally you would need turbo's or blower to get that. Its not an insane build either, it just shows the new technology is so far ahead of the the old motors if your chasing power. And who doesn't need 500 horsepower! bare minimum.

[rexy]

How soon we forget.
In a level playing field against all comers the humble plastic was king of horsepower heroes at Summernats in the forced induction class. Over 1500 hp at the tyres on pump fuel and limited to 15 pounds boost. Not a chev to be seen within cooee.

[ozyozyozy]

Yes the holden was and still is king at summernats hp, others as far as im aware are still yet to better it in competition.
He did hurt parts on a regular basis, was def not without its issues.
Im a fan of holden too, have spent ALOT of money on mine getting reliable performance, i dont just do those short passes down the strip.
BUT i know i can get better performance and reliability from other makes, these are also not legal for my form of racing.
So i welcome what torque power is doing, instead of walking away from it, they tackled it head on.

[antelopeslr5000]

The Little Paw Block seems like a well thought out design, a good alternative to the C.O.M.E. Racing Alloy Block. Doesn't seem as though you can purchase a C.O.M.E. Racing Alloy Block even if you are willing to cough up the $12,000 for one. A good friend of mine has been on a mission for 3 years to purchase an alloy block from C.O.M.E. They prefer to do the alloy engines in batches to reduce their costs as that profit margin isn't there for them to manufacture just one block at at time (even at $12K a pop ???). So he has been waiting for others to place an order but no luck thus far.

 

Plus I've heard that the company that does (or did) the CNC work for the C.O.M.E. alloy block are no longer interested in doing so. 

[lakeside]

The rules and ncop dont allow a ls engine in a lj so if i want to have a high hp 8 i need these kind of developments. Although it wont be legal

They built a factory 5.3L LS engine which can pass depending on what engineer you talk to.

[cameron]

The Little Paw Block seems like a well thought out design, a good alternative to the C.O.M.E. Racing Alloy Block. Doesn't seem as though you can purchase a C.O.M.E. Racing Alloy Block even if you are willing to cough up the $12,000 for one. A good friend of mine has been on a mission for 3 years to purchase an alloy block from C.O.M.E. They prefer to do the alloy engines in batches to reduce their costs as that profit margin isn't there for them to manufacture just one block at at time (even at $12K a pop ???). So he has been waiting for others to place an order but no luck thus far.

 

Plus I've heard that the company that does (or did) the CNC work for the C.O.M.E. alloy block are no longer interested in doing so. 

 

 

I did hear that Torque Power where going to do a run of Alloy Little Paw engines.

 

Cameron

[cameron]

The next phase of the Torque-Power block project, Aluminuim little paw block. First proto type getting machined now.

 

 

 

 

I also see on Torque Powers Face book page that one of the Little Paws on the dyno went 780hp @ 7800 and 571ft lb @ 5900

 

 

 

Cameron

[ozyozyozy]

One of there little paws is headed to NZ, it may actually be that one in the pic, as the belt drive looks familiar.
Will be in a NZ muscle last i heard.

780 is achieveable, just depends how much money you want to spend

[lakeside]

780 is achieveable, just depends how much money you want to spend

i would think that engine wouldn't see much change from 100K?

[ozyozyozy]

All about cubes and rpm.

Cars are measures in cubic dollars, how fast you want to go depends on how much you want to spend😊

[cameron]

Yes N/A carby. It is going into a NZ based hatch owned/raced by Clarke Hopkins

 

cast iron little paw block, comp ratio is 13.5 to 1 , tp230 cnc'd ported heads, tp sheet metal rocker covers, tp pro paw intake manifold, t&d shaft mount rocker setup, tp 55mm billet cam technology, roller cam bearings, 5 stage Barnes dry sump pump, tp adjustable cam timing belt drive setup, Braswell carby, assembled and dyno tuned by torque power and micron machining

 

I spoke to Craig last week and he said a new N /A 460cube big paw he is building with his new 260cc hiport heads will be 1150hp @ around 7800rpm. That is 2.5hp per cube which is very impressive.

 

Cameron

[N/A-PWR]

Excellent Figures here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Like Button's for youse's.