1954 replies to this topic

[S pack]

Can someone please help my Toran has the following Tag numbers and I need help decyphering them

82911JL214533

LJ82911
960-A
1842-40
567-13884


Cheers

G/day and welcome Jeff.
First of all this should have been posted in the GTR & XU1 Verification thread but seeing as your new here I think you'll be excused.

82911JL214533 relates to an Adelaide (Elizabeth plant) built GTR XU1 completed on 14/09/1972.
It was sold in September 1972 to Dealer 000X which is GMH Export.
960-A is the body number.
Trim 40X??? Black vinyl.
567-13884 is Chateau Mauve Metallic
There is no engine number listed as it was an export vehicle.
Note: It is one of 4 Adelaide XU1's that have consecutive VIN numbers that were completed on the 13, 14, 15 and 20 of September 1972 and all four cars were exported.

Cheers
Dave.

Edited by S pack, 22 August 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[Dr Terry]

Note: ALJ######A = Model year1972 LJ Torana. It has been speculated the A & B prefixes are associated with the ADR's but I don't know if this factually correct.

Hi Dave.

The A or B (or C, D etc.) are quite definitely for the ADR groups. Each time during a model run that a new group of ADRs was introduced, the first letter of the chassis number is changed.

When the first run of any model series is released the number begins with an A, e.g. ALJ. When the ADRs were updated for Feb 73 (amber blinker, crash panels etc.) they used BLJ. When the next batch was introduced (ADR27 etc.) in Sept 73 the prefix changed to CLJ.

HQ & WB went all the way to EHQ & EWB. This was irrespective of either calender year & GM's model year.

Dr Terry

[S pack]

Hi Dave.

The A or B (or C, D etc.) are quite definitely for the ADR groups. Each time during a model run that a new group of ADRs was introduced, the first letter of the chassis number is changed.

When the first run of any model series is released the number begins with an A, e.g. ALJ. When the ADRs were updated for Feb 73 (amber blinker, crash panels etc.) they used BLJ. When the next batch was introduced (ADR27 etc.) in Sept 73 the prefix changed to CLJ.

HQ & WB went all the way to EHQ & EWB. This was irrespective of either calender year & GM's model year.

Dr Terry

Thanks for that Dr Terry.
One slight error in all that, and call me anal if you want. The front indicator lens change from translucent to amber occurred during December 1972 production for the LJ and HQ.

Cheers
Dave.

[Bazza]

Hi

^^^

+ BLJ went to the end of '73 because ADR27 came in on 1/1/74

Cheers

Bazza

[S pack]

Hi

^^^

+ BLJ went to the end of '73 because ADR27 came in on 1/1/74

Cheers

Bazza

^^^ ADR 27 was legislated to come into effect on the 1/01/1974 however GMH introduced ADR 27 into production on the 1/10/1973 in line with their policy of making these type of production changes as early possible.

So, if the BLJ prefix continued until the 30/12/1973 then maybe the prefix is not linked to ADR changes???

Edited by S pack, 22 August 2012 - 08:08 PM.

[Dr Terry]

What I've noticed in most cases, is that the changes were made on the production line well before the relevant ADR made them compulsory.

AFAIK, BLJ began on 1/2/73 even though the amber lenses etc. came online a few months before. It doubt that a 12/72 build with amber lenses would have ADR6 on its compliance plate.

While on the subject of ADRs, it is common knowledge what changes were made to the regular 6 & V8 motors, as far as PCV plumbing is concerned, but what about GTRs. The last XU-1 was built before ADR27, but what about the stock GTR 202 motor? Did it lose its chrome air cleaner & gain the stock black one (with the snorkel). Or were there no ADR27 GTRs.

Dr Terry.

[Balfizar]

What I've noticed in most cases, is that the changes were made on the production line well before the relevant ADR made them compulsory.

AFAIK, BLJ began on 1/2/73 even though the amber lenses etc. came online a few months before. It doubt that a 12/72 build with amber lenses would have ADR6 on its compliance plate.

While on the subject of ADRs, it is common knowledge what changes were made to the regular 6 & V8 motors, as far as PCV plumbing is concerned, but what about GTRs. The last XU-1 was built before ADR27, but what about the stock GTR 202 motor? Did it lose its chrome air cleaner & gain the stock black one (with the snorkel). Or were there no ADR27 GTRs.

Dr Terry.

I believe ADR's mandatory compliance was based on delivery date, e.g. cars delivered (ex-GMH) after this date were required to comply. Therefore all stock holdings on non-compliant cars had to be depleted before the introductory date, hence the big lead-in time for production changes. The question is, were GMH delivery dates to dealers the cut-off or dealer sales to customers the cut=off date. It would make sense that dealer stock was immune to ADR changes, old unsold stock would have to be returned to GMH for modification or the ADR requiremnts (parts) shipped to dealers and then modified, and I see no mention of this in service letters to dealers. It may answer some questions for some non ADR compliant GTR's. But it would not be the first or last time I have seen non compliant items float out the door at GMH.

Cheers
Balfizar

Cheers
Balfizar

[S pack]

What I've noticed in most cases, is that the changes were made on the production line well before the relevant ADR made them compulsory.

AFAIK, BLJ began on 1/2/73 even though the amber lenses etc. came online a few months before. It doubt that a 12/72 build with amber lenses would have ADR6 on its compliance plate.

While on the subject of ADRs, it is common knowledge what changes were made to the regular 6 & V8 motors, as far as PCV plumbing is concerned, but what about GTRs. The last XU-1 was built before ADR27, but what about the stock GTR 202 motor? Did it lose its chrome air cleaner & gain the stock black one (with the snorkel). Or were there no ADR27 GTRs.

Dr Terry.

AFAIK the LJ GTR's didn't have a chrome air cleaner like the LC GTR. They had all the standard 202 gear.
It is most likely all LJ GTR built on and after the 1/10/1972 would have had the closed positive crankcase ventilation system fitted.
The only engine that was excluded from the ADR 27 changes was the XU1 and there weren't many XU1's made on and after 1/10/1972.

Also if you read Mikecatts recent post in this thread you will find he has asked about a 20/12/1972 Adelaide built LJ Torana S which has a chassis number that is prefixed BLJ.

[S pack]

I believe ADR's mandatory compliance was based on delivery date, e.g. cars delivered (ex-GMH) after this date were required to comply. Therefore all stock holdings on non-compliant cars had to be depleted before the introductory date, hence the big lead-in time for production changes. The question is, were GMH delivery dates to dealers the cut-off or dealer sales to customers the cut=off date. It would make sense that dealer stock was immune to ADR changes, old unsold stock would have to be returned to GMH for modification or the ADR requiremnts (parts) shipped to dealers and then modified, and I see no mention of this in service letters to dealers. It may answer some questions for some non ADR compliant GTR's. But it would not be the first or last time I have seen non compliant items float out the door at GMH.

Cheers
Balfizar

Cheers
Balfizar

Hmmm, from what I have read a vehicle has to comply with the ADR's that were in force at the time of manufacture.
Based on this I don't see why a vehicle that has a compliance date of say 6/73 would have to be updated to comply with ADR 27 if the dealer didn't sell that vehicle until say, for example, February 1974.

Edited by S pack, 23 August 2012 - 05:38 PM.

[Bazza]

Hi

I can't find any LJs with ADR27 on the compliance tag. The earliest "27" I can find is on an LH.
BTW I have lots of examples of LJs completed in early '74 with BLJ prefix. In fact I have only come across 2 CLJ prefixes.

Cheers

Bazza

[Dr Terry]

AFAIK the LJ GTR's didn't have a chrome air cleaner like the LC GTR. They had all the standard 202 gear.

I always believed that LJ GTRs, even though their engine was the stock 202, still had a chrome rocker cover & an open style chrome air cleaner, although the base was the single barrel type. The LJ GTR air cleaner that I've seen was similar to an LC GTR except it had the small hole at the rear for the PCV hose clip.

I realise that parts books are often not gospel, but M37608 (June 75) lists 2 types of 202 chrome rocker covers, one pre-ADR27 & one to suit ADR27.

Dr Terry

[S pack]

AFAIK the LJ GTR's didn't have a chrome air cleaner like the LC GTR. They had all the standard 202 gear.
It is most likely all LJ GTR built on and after the 1/10/1972 would have had the closed positive crankcase ventilation system fitted.
The only engine that was excluded from the ADR 27 changes was the XU1 and there weren't many XU1's made on and after 1/10/1972.

Also if you read Mikecatts recent post in this thread you will find he has asked about a 20/12/1972 Adelaide built LJ Torana S which has a chassis number that is prefixed BLJ.

and there weren't many XU1's made on and after 1/10/1972.
^^^ Ooops, made a typo. Should read: 'and there weren't many XU1's made on and after 1/10/1973'.

Edited by S pack, 23 August 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[S pack]

I always believed that LJ GTRs, even though their engine was the stock 202, still had a chrome rocker cover & an open style chrome air cleaner, although the base was the single barrel type. The LJ GTR air cleaner that I've seen was similar to an LC GTR except it had the small hole at the rear for the PCV hose clip.

I realise that parts books are often not gospel, but M37608 (June 75) lists 2 types of 202 chrome rocker covers, one pre-ADR27 & one to suit ADR27.

Dr Terry

This example appears to have a fairly original engine bay. First chrome LJ GTR air cleaner I've ever seen.
http://australianmus...1-lj-gtr-torana

[Dr Terry]

This example appears to have a fairly original engine bay. First chrome LJ GTR air cleaner I've ever seen.
http://australianmus...1-lj-gtr-torana

I do know of several original cars, that's why I didn't doubt the fact that the LJ GTR air cleaner top was the same style as the LC GTR. What I was asking, given that the parts catalogue lists a chrome version the ADR27 rocker cover (3 hole HJ/LH type), where did the PCV return hose go to ?. They must have used the black snorkel type air cleaner for those few that were built. If in fact they do exist, they must be the rarest of all LJs.

Dr Terry

[Bazza]

Hi

Only 2 LJ GTRs completed in 1974 - 1 in Adelaide on 15/1/74 the other Brisbane 16/1/74. Most LJ GTRs completed by mid Dec 1973. It is impossible to say why these 2 were so delayed, the PSNs are not in isolation but mixed up with cars completed a month earlier. My guess is that they wouldn't have been ADR27 compliant.

Cheers

Bazza

[S pack]

I do know of several original cars, that's why I didn't doubt the fact that the LJ GTR air cleaner top was the same style as the LC GTR. What I was asking, given that the parts catalogue lists a chrome version the ADR27 rocker cover (3 hole HJ/LH type), where did the PCV return hose go to ?. They must have used the black snorkel type air cleaner for those few that were built. If in fact they do exist, they must be the rarest of all LJs.

Dr Terry

The GMH Parts & Accessories News parts list covering the HQ & LJ positive closed crankcase ventilation changes lists the ADR 27 type chrome rocker cover for 82911 model with the notation 'excl XU1'.
There is no mention in this parts list of any special chrome air cleaner for the GTR.
The stock ADR 27 air cleaner is listed for 6cyl eng. 'excl XU1'

There were LJ GTR's made in and after 1/10/1972 and into early 1974, so they do exist, the question is what parts were they fitted with in regards to ADR 27.

Cheers
Dave.

Had to edit this slightly

Edited by S pack, 23 August 2012 - 09:19 PM.

[Bazza]

Dave - see above

Bazza

[S pack]

Dave - see above

Bazza

Yep saw your post Bazza.

[dattoman]

Wrong thread for ID of tag numbers guys... would you like your own thread ?

[crabba67]

Hi

Only 2 LJ GTRs completed in 1974 - 1 in Adelaide on 15/1/74 the other Brisbane 16/1/74. Most LJ GTRs completed by mid Dec 1973. It is impossible to say why these 2 were so delayed, the PSNs are not in isolation but mixed up with cars completed a month earlier. My guess is that they wouldn't have been ADR27 compliant.

Cheers

Bazza

Hi Bazza,5 GTRs in 1974 in adelaide 15/1 L258479,17/1 L258562,15/1 L258880,15/1 L258921 and 15/1 L258961.
cheers anthony

[Bazza]

Hi

Yup - my mistake - "More haste - less speed". My main point was that these cars were commenced much earlier, but for some reason weren't completed at the same time as their 'siblings'.

Cheers

Bazza

Datto - I think this sub-topic has been done to death on this thread so perhaps needs its own.

[Dr Terry]

Hi

Only 2 LJ GTRs completed in 1974 - 1 in Adelaide on 15/1/74 the other Brisbane 16/1/74. Most LJ GTRs completed by mid Dec 1973. It is impossible to say why these 2 were so delayed, the PSNs are not in isolation but mixed up with cars completed a month earlier. My guess is that they wouldn't have been ADR27 compliant.

Cheers

Bazza

It's highly unlikely that GM-H ever let a car out of the factory which didn't comply. I seem to remember that they had to go to all the trouble of making special bits for the 1978 LX Toranas for ADR25A (ignition lock). This was probably less than one month's production.

I've recorded a car where the chassis number was restamped at the factory from CLX.... to DLX.... made during this time.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

I have a 12/72 LJ with a BLJ chassi prefix that has clear indicator lenses.

Well that throws a spanner in the works. That one's got to be a mistake. It doesn't comply, yet has the BLJ prefix 2 months before it was required.

One other thing though. It's not just the presence of amber lenses (anybody could swap those), it's the extra wiring etc., for the parking light in the headlight which distinguishes the later cars.

Dr Terry