84 replies to this topic

[eyepeeler]

This thread is intended to be short and NOT about the Torana, but is about that thread on ordering an L34.

What I want to know is what identifies what yel327 calls a Holden car.
When Holden the manufacturer has made many cars of all shapes and sizes, what identifies certain cars as being Holden Cars.
At this point I don't care about what the Torana is or isn't.

I don't want to hear about what Chevrolet do, if Holden chose to call certain cars they made in their range Holden Cars, what identifies it as one.

[S pack]

If my memory serves me correctly the vehicles in question usually had the name  H O L D E N  emblazoned in individual letters across the nose of the hood and the rear face of the deck lid or tail gate.

Edited by S pack, 25 February 2017 - 10:49 PM.

[eyepeeler]

If my memory serves me correctly the vehicles in question usually had the name  H O L D E N  emblazoned in individual letters across the nose of the hood and the rear face of the deck lid or tail gate.

I was just looking at images of HQ's & HJ's and I can't see a Holden badge anywhere on the front or rear.
I saw names on the fender and rear boot lid like:
Kingswood
Premier
Belmont
SS
Monaro
Statesman

But no Holden badge that I could see.

[S pack]

I was just looking at images of HQ's & HJ's and I can't see a Holden badge anywhere on the front or rear.
 

I was just thinking about the HQ and later series cars and you are probably correct. Although I do believe the HQ - HZ cab & chassis had HOLDEN on the nose panel above the grille.

Edited by S pack, 25 February 2017 - 11:17 PM.

[eyepeeler]

I was just thinking about the HQ and later series cars and you are probably correct. Although I do believe the HQ - HZ cab & chassis had HOLDEN on the nose panel above the grille.

Can you show me where in a picture? I can't find one.

From the 48-215 onwards, which models sported a Holden Badge?
48-215 yes
FJ yes
FE no, couldn't see one
FC yes
Etc Etc to HZ

[S pack]

Can you show me where in a picture? I can't find one.

From the 48-215 onwards, which models sported a Holden Badge?
48-215 yes
FJ yes
FE no, couldn't see one
FC yes
Etc Etc to HZ

FE has a chrome hood emblem with HOLDEN and the LION in the insert.

 

Just googled HQ 1 Tonner and found these two.

Attached Files

•  HZ-ONE-TONNER-V8-253-4-Speed.jpg   35.05K   6 downloads
•  Holden 1 tonner.jpg   9.66K   7 downloads

Edited by S pack, 26 February 2017 - 12:21 AM.

[eyepeeler]

FE has a chrome hood emblem with HOLDEN and the LION in the insert.
 
Just googled HQ 1 Tonner and found these two.

Thanks Dave, for a the photos of the Utes,

With the FE I discounted the hood emblem as from what I could find all emblems with the Lion has the name Holden in the emblem.
But would that identify it as a Holden Car?

As yel327 said in the other thread, the Holden Car ran from the 48-215 till it finished with the HZ.
So what identifiers does he see.

[Shiney005]

Have a look at the Safety Compliance Plate Craig.

 

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[Shiney005]

By the way, whoever bought that Tunna in the above post got a bargain!!!

[a9x868]

You may find this interesting ..  it contains some other names they had in mind ...  

 

   From here, Holden continued to pursue the goal of producing an Australian car. This involved compromise with GM, as Holden's managing director, Laurence Hartnett, favoured development of a local design, while GM preferred to see an American design as the basis for "Australia's Own Car".^[23] In the end, the design was based on a previously rejected post-war Chevrolet proposal.^[24] The Holden was launched in 1948, creating long waiting lists extending through 1949 and beyond.^[25][26] The name "Holden" was chosen in honour of Sir Edward Holden, the company's first chairman and grandson of J.A. Holden. Other names considered were "GeM", "Austral", "Melba", "Woomerah", "Boomerang", "Emu" and "Canbra", a phonetic spelling of Canberra.^[27] Although officially designated "48-215", the car was marketed simply as the "Holden".^[28] The unofficial usage of the name "FX" originated within Holden, referring to the updated suspension on the 48-215 of 1953.^[29]

Although officially designated "48-215", the car was marketed simply as the "Holden".^[28] The unofficial usage of the name "FX" originated within Holden, referring to the updated suspension on the 48-215 of 1953.^[29] 

^{so after the suspension upgrade it could have been called the  "F i X" by Holden}  

[eyepeeler]

Have a look at the Safety Compliance Plate Craig.

So why does yel327 say only the full size car was a Holden Car?
If the Torana and Gemini have Holden on their compliance plate, why are they not Holden Cars?

Although officially designated "48-215", the car was marketed simply as the "Holden".^[28] The unofficial usage of the name "FX" originated within Holden, referring to the updated suspension on the 48-215 of 1953.^{[29]
so after the suspension upgrade it could have been called the "F i X" by Holden}

The FiX, LOL,bahahaha

Edited by eyepeeler, 26 February 2017 - 10:13 AM.

[S pack]

By the way, whoever bought that Tunna in the above post got a bargain!!!

The Orange? Tonner is pre 1973 HQ (note the clear indicators and the yellow one is claimed to be a HZ.

Edited by S pack, 26 February 2017 - 10:37 AM.

[Shiney005]

Yep. Found it on ebay.  Not a bargain.

 bl1600.jpg   557.96K   5 downloads

 

He also has an LJ 2 door.

http://www.ebay.com....sd=222396669972

 

As you can see Craig, I have taken this thread hostage. If you want it back leave $10,000 and the map to Dave's manhood in a paper bag on the corner of Dijabringatinny and Wheellabarrabackwards.

[eyepeeler]

 As you can see Craig, I have taken this thread hostage. If you want it back leave $10,000 and the map to Dave's manhood in a paper bag on the corner of Dijabringatinny and Wheellabarrabackwards.

Is that the corner the of the old D'Salaami family residence. Pretty sure it is. Will let Haid know you will drop by to pick up your map to Dave's manhood. Just a hint, it's down a dark lane way called Johnson St.

i really want yel327 to tell me why full size cars up to HZ are Holden cars. What has he seen or read that tells him that.

[RallyRed]

yousé will never win, lol  .....Byron is technically correct .

 

Its just that the average punter has let it slide a bit....and now think that is how it is.

[a9x868]

Yep. Found it on ebay.  Not a bargain.

bl1600.jpg

 

He also has an LJ 2 door.

http://www.ebay.com....sd=222396669972

 

As you can see Craig, I have taken this thread hostage. If you want it back leave $10,000 and the map to Dave's manhood in a paper bag on the corner of Dijabringatinny and Wheellabarrabackwards.

 

Yep. Found it on ebay.  Not a bargain.

bl1600.jpg

 

He also has an LJ 2 door.

http://www.ebay.com....sd=222396669972

 

As you can see Craig, I have taken this thread hostage. If you want it back leave $10,000 and the map to Dave's manhood in a paper bag on the corner of Dijabringatinny and Wheellabarrabackwards.

 If you want it back leave $10,000 and the map to Dave's manhood in a paper bag on the corner of Dijabringatinny and Wheellabarrabackwards.

oh!

that is just off the Gotyahandonyanob Freeway in Yourdreaminyafool

Edited by a9x868, 26 February 2017 - 05:37 PM.

[eyepeeler]

yousé will never win, lol  .....Byron is technically correct .
 
Its just that the average punter has let it slide a bit....and now think that is how it is.

This thread is not intended to be a win or lose argument.
If Byron is technically correct, I'd like to know what has convinced him of that, what has he read seen or found that shows him what a Holden Car is?
He wouldn't have always had this conviction, and this is something he gained knowledge from that has given him this, what was that knowledge source?

I'm happy to know either way, but so far all I have is his word and references to other car brands like Chev which hasn't convinced me of his point of view.

[eyepeeler]

All of the compliance plates in Shineys post above have Holden on them
Holden LC Torana
Holden Torana Sedan
Holden HQ Coupe

Etc etc.

What technical information makes the Torana not a Holden?
What technically make the Q a Holden Car.
There must be something in writing somewhere that's spells it out??

[yel327]

There is plenty in writing. I even scanned some and tried to boot up old Vista and XP machines to post them, but they kept locking up on this forum on Advanced reply. And you cannot post images on this forum with Windows 10, can't even post links to external image hosters!

 

But you all keep thinking with blinkers on.

 

Holden was a car but became a brand. As I said before, like Chevrolet, and I guess like Vegemite in some ways. The Holden car is like the Chevrolet car. The Torana is like the Camaro. However you look at it, the Holden carline is the 48-215 to HZ, and it does live on into WB with commercials and was re-used again later with cars like the Monaro and was applied to commercials also. All you have to do is look at the front cover of any Holden and then Torana parts catalogues, service manuals or even colour charts applicable to Holden, Torana and Gemini (A627 for example). All of these have the HOLDEN brand, or at least the Lion on them. Then they say things like HQ Holden Service manual. The LH Torana equivalent says LH Torana Service Manual. The Parts catalogues say things like HX Holden and Statesman Parts Catalogue, and the Torana ones say like LC Torana Parts Catalogue, or LX Torana and Sunbird. Colour charts say: Holden, Torana and Gemini for example referring to the 3 x car lines GMH were assembling when A627 was current. Others have Sunbird and Holden Commodore on them. The same thing is repeated EVERYWHERE within GMH documentation. If people choose to think otherwise then that is OK, I will always use the only actual correct terminology. If I'm describing what went in where like say rocker covers, i'll always say "this one was used on Holden, that one was used on Torana", there is no other logical way to say it. What else should go on the front cover of a HQ Holden Service Manual? It has to be HQ Holden as that is what it is, the HQ is the Holden car of that period.

[Ice]

There is plenty in writing. I even scanned some and tried to boot up old Vista and XP machines to post them, but they kept locking up on this forum on Advanced reply. And you cannot post images on this forum with Windows 10, can't even post links to external image hosters!
 
But you all keep thinking with blinkers on.
 
Holden was a car but became a brand. As I said before, like Chevrolet, and I guess like Vegemite in some ways. The Holden car is like the Chevrolet car. The Torana is like the Camaro. However you look at it, the Holden carline is the 48-215 to HZ, and it does live on into WB with commercials and was re-used again later with cars like the Monaro and was applied to commercials also. All you have to do is look at the front cover of any Holden and then Torana parts catalogues, service manuals or even colour charts applicable to Holden, Torana and Gemini (A627 for example). All of these have the HOLDEN brand, or at least the Lion on them. Then they say things like HQ Holden Service manual. The LH Torana equivalent says LH Torana Service Manual. The Parts catalogues say things like HX Holden and Statesman Parts Catalogue, and the Torana ones say like LC Torana Parts Catalogue, or LX Torana and Sunbird. Colour charts say: Holden, Torana and Gemini for example referring to the 3 x car lines GMH were assembling when A627 was current. Others have Sunbird and Holden Commodore on them. The same thing is repeated EVERYWHERE within GMH documentation. If people choose to think otherwise then that is OK, I will always use the only actual correct terminology. If I'm describing what went in where like say rocker covers, i'll always say "this one was used on Holden, that one was used on Torana", there is no other logical way to say it. What else should go on the front cover of a HQ Holden Service Manual? It has to be HQ Holden as that is what it is, the HQ is the Holden car of that period.

Not all of us thanks

[Dr Terry]

I'll have to say that I'm 'on the fence' with this one.

 

While Byron is technically correct about Holden being a separate carline to the Torana & Gemini, GM-H themselves have muddied the waters by putting Holden badges on several of the latter.

 

In my book, I refer to anything with a Holden or lion badge as a Holden. It makes it simple. By the time the 80s & 90s got here we saw everything from Barinas, Drovers, Rodeos, Astras, Novas, Apollos, Calibras, Shuttles, Jackaroos, Commodores, Utility, Statesmans, Caprices etc. etc. etc. To argue which is a Holden or which is a Commodore (or not) I believe is a pointless endeavour, if GM-H themselves cannot be consistent. 

 

The problem is  that Holden is (or was) both a marque & a carline. Originally the marque was GM-H & the car was called a Holden. However by the mid to late 70s, after the intro of the Torana, Gemini, Sunbird & Commodore, Holden had 'become' the marque.

 

Even in 'official' literature during the early 70s, GM-H referred to 3 distinct carlines, the Torana, Statesman & Holden. Today it is completely different.

 

Dr Terry