25 replies to this topic

[Ando]

Question;

 

 What month/year did Holden change LX Torana front calipers from all cast iron to cast alloy/iron. 

 

My 6/76 hatch had the all cast iron calipers & my 9/76 hatch has the alloy pair.

 

I'm unsure of the later hatch front end, being original, from this car.   

 

 

 

 

 s-l1600 (1) - 2.jpg   59.82K   4 downloads  Cast Iron

 

 s-l1600 (15).jpg   42.52K   5 downloads  Cast Alloy/iron

 

Cheers

[Dr Terry]

I always thought that the caliper change occurred at the same time as the ADR31 brake upgrades around March '77. At that time they enlarged the master cylinder, added the BRAKE FAIL light & the 2-pin switch to operate it & also changed the routing of the front brake pipes & hoses.

 

This coincided with the change to the CLX chassis number prefix.

 

Dr Terry

[StephenSLR]

Many car manufacturers use what was left over from the previous model on the next model.

 

To answer your question I'm inclined to think; that depends which factory your car came from and whenever that factory ran out of what was left over from the LH range and they did the same with black engine bay paint, white needle gauges, etc. rather than word from above to change any or all of those on a specific date so you may not find any manufacturer records outlining dates.

 

This is why you find irregularities between cars of the same model; different factories producing the same model ran out of old stock at different times.

 

Sometimes they change suppliers part way through a run and the same goes, they start using the new stock when the stock from the previous supplier runs out.

 

Apologies for not answering with a date but I hope it gives you insight on how manufacturers work; it's not as precise as some restorers would like to think.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 16 March 2018 - 03:35 PM.

[Ando]

I always thought that the caliper change occurred at the same time as the ADR31 brake upgrades around March '77. At that time they enlarged the master cylinder, added the BRAKE FAIL light & the 2-pin switch to operate it & also changed the routing of the front brake pipes & hoses.

 

This coincided with the change to the CLX chassis number prefix.

 

Dr Terry

 

I did find the ADR 31 note & part number change in the Torana Parts Illustration book but it was unclear to me what the ADR 31 change actually is. 

 

My two SS hatch Compliance plates don't have ADR 31.

 

6/76 ALX... build has the early cast iron calipers & the hard brake line tubes terminating at the inner wheel well hole (with spring clip) & flexi lines other side. 

 

9/76 BLX... car has the provision for the alternative hard brake lines. They goes through the inner guard hole (with rubber grommet) & ends at the angle bracket spot welded to the chassis rail under. Similar to A9X design. The front end has been re-bushed at some stage with an additional later dated steering rack (2/9/77). 

The front end K frame has the lower UCA holes (60-65mm down from chassis mount plate & pre ADR 31 stub axles (different part #) & LX steering arms. 

 

Both cars have the V8 double diaphragm booster, remote proportion valve, cast alloy master cylinder etc.

They both have the early type single wire brake fail warning light system.

 

So the only real differences between the 2 cars are the caliper types & front brake hard/flex line design. 

 

Dr Terry, What you say make sense to me but I'm thinking there may have been a more progressive assembly line changes with redesigned parts upon supplier availability. 

 

Does that make sense too?

Edited by Ando, 17 March 2018 - 08:45 AM.

[Ando]

Many car manufacturers use what was left over from the previous model on the next model.

 

To answer your question I'm inclined to think; that depends which factory your car came from and whenever that factory ran out of what was left over from the LH range and they did the same with black engine bay paint, white needle gauges, etc. rather than word from above to change any or all of those on a specific date so you may not find any manufacturer records outlining dates.

 

This is why you find irregularities between cars of the same model; different factories producing the same model ran out of old stock at different times.

 

Sometimes they change suppliers part way through a run and the same goes, they start using the new stock when the stock from the previous supplier runs out.

 

Apologies for not answering with a date but I hope it gives you insight on how manufacturers work; it's not as precise as some restorers would like to think.

 

s

 

Hi Stephen,

 

I've taken some of your thoughts on board & I agree, it's very plausible that could've happened frequently.

 

The LX model I'm referring to were all assembled at the Dandenong plant unlike the LC-LJ & other models etc. 

 

Thanks  Ando

[Dr Terry]

It could well be that the caliper & pipe/hose change occurred earlier than ADR31/CLX. But the ADR change definitely mandated the 2-pin switch 

& the change to the larger cast-iron m/cyl.

 

You mention the remote proportioning valve & alloy m/cyl. AFAIK ALL LXs (except A9X) had the remote proportioning valve, but the one-piece alloy m/cyl is aftermarket.

 

StephenSLR mentioned running production changes & most of that is true, however other than pre-production prototypes or mules I doubt that GM-H fitted white needle & orange needle gauge sets between LH & LX in production.

 

Also, virtually all LH/LX were built at Dandenong so there was less issue with variations between factories.

 

Dr Terry

[StephenSLR]

I doubt that GM-H fitted white needle & orange needle gauge sets between LH & LX in production.

 

I may be confused between the two types of orange needle gauges, though that change came later in the run but didn't some of the very early LX's unofficially have white needle gauges?

 

I know some of the early LX had black engine bays.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 17 March 2018 - 08:59 AM.

[Ando]

 

 

 

I had an early LX SS 5000 30 years ago. It was a 2/76 build ALX car with the black engine bay & the big nut cast iron master cylinder.

 

 PC300011 - alx.jpg   79.21K   1 downloads

[StephenSLR]

the big nut cast iron master cylinder.

 

I also had the big nut cylinder in my 9/76 SL/R. I remember following the trend and painting it red to match the engine and had a friend chrome plate the cap.

 

Somewhere along the line (excuse the pun) it needed replacing and on went a later version. I didn't even think to ask the mechanic if I could keep the old one.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 17 March 2018 - 09:11 AM.

[Ando]

I think I've partly solved my 'Which Caliper" question! 

 

After a clean up, the Torana alloy calipers appear to have a date stamped on them. Couldn't see them before..

 

One has 15 G-7 & other 2 H-7. So they are not original to the 9/76 SS along with the '77 steering rack!

 

This part number matching exercise, is not that easy to the untrained. lol

 

But I'm discovering, the clues are are there if I know where to find them & look a bit closer. 

 

Thanks for all your help Dr Terry & Stephen

 

Cheers Ando

Edited by Ando, 17 March 2018 - 09:47 AM.

[dattoman]

PBR catalogues claim the change to be 9/76

Then changed again 4/79 for the UC range to the commodore style Girlock.

[Ando]

PBR catalogues claim the change to be 9/76

Then changed again 4/79 for the UC range to the commodore style Girlock.

 

Neil, just to clarify.. 

 

My 9/76 car would've been factory fitted with the 'Torana' cast alloy PBR calipers. 

 

Only "good for a door stop" you quoted sometime ago. 

[StephenSLR]

My 9/76 car would've been factory fitted with the 'Torana' cast alloy PBR calipers.

 

Could it be that it was noted in the catalogue as available for Toranas from 9/76 and GM-H ordered them ready for placement but first used up all the remaining cast iron ones?

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 17 March 2018 - 06:20 PM.

[Dr Terry]

I may be confused between the two types of orange needle gauges, though that change came later in the run but didn't some of the very early LX's unofficially have white needle gauges?

 

I know some of the early LX had black engine bays.

 

s

I'm not sure when the black engine bay changed to body colour but it was more than just the 'first few' LXs. I know of a 6/76 LX with a black engine bay & my 9/76 has it body colour, so the change could coincide with ADR27A (July 76).

 

As far as the orange needle instruments go, basically ALL LX had the orange needles & ALL LH had white needle. It's a bit like the yellow needle HZ instruments, ALL HJ & HX had white needle & ALL HZ had yellow needle, there was no crossover.

 

The big nut master cylinder is another myth gaining momentum. The simple facts are than ALL HK-HZ & ALL LC-LX Toranas left the factory with the 'big nut' brake cylinder, with either front disc or all drum brakes. The only exceptions are the 'little' HB-LC-LJ-TA 4-cyl Toranas & the A9X. In the 70s, 80s & 90s etc. it was far cheaper to fit the alloy PBR style m/cyl than to overhaul the big nut, so many big nuts were just binned. These days everybody wants the big nut for an authentic restoration & now most cars have the alloy unit.

 

Dr Terry

[Ando]

Yep agree to that..

 

I reckon engine bay black to body colour was somewhere around March/April '76 from my experience & observations. 

 

Also..now I'm after the cast iron Master cylinder. Is somebody out there with one to move on?

 

Ando

[StephenSLR]

In the 70s, 80s & 90s etc. it was far cheaper to fit the alloy PBR style m/cyl than to overhaul the big nut, so many big nuts were just binned.

 

Same goes with fuel pumps, out went recondition kits and you just replaced the whole pump with one you can't recondition. You just bin it when it's done.

 

s

Edited by StephenSLR, 18 March 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[Ando]

I've been on FB about this subject. I seem to be getting a little closer to the facts & separating the myths. 

 

I came across this photo today.

 

I'm thinking this is an ADR 31 compliant hatch, with the later & larger type MC & revised brake fail system as discussed. 

 

 29365381_1874804519199526_6654436828784885760_n.jpg   69.62K   6 downloads

 

 

[Dr Terry]

I reckon engine bay black to body colour was somewhere around March/April '76 from my experience & observations. 

We should have enough original LXs on the forum to work this one out.

 

Who out there has a mid-76 LX & what colour are the under bonnet panels ?

 

Virtually all LXs were Dandenong built so there shouldn't be much variation on the change date.

 

Dr Terry

[Ando]

This should be a '76 BLX... 27a car with the smaller tank cast iron MC.   Before ADR 31

 

Hard to say for sure though.. It does have the exhaust emission manifold but it has the earlier (601 style) side fuel inlet Rochester?? 

 

I think it's almost safe to say my 9/76 car would've had the this type MC.

 

Do others agree..happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong.

 

Ando

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•  138405x944y724.jpg   74.64K   5 downloads

Edited by Ando, 20 March 2018 - 06:58 AM.

[StephenSLR]

Who out there has a mid-76 LX & what colour are the under bonnet panels ?

 

Would be best to start a thread on this; mine's. 9/76 body colour

 

 

Virtually all LXs were Dandenong built

 

Does 'virtually' mean some weren't?

 

If owners of any that weren't have different results; this can start arguments, lol

 

s

[Ando]

My 3 LX Toranas were all original body colour.  4/76 ALX..., 6/76 ALX..., & 9/76 BLX...

 

My old 2/76 ALX.. was black engine bay.

 

A mate also has a 4/76 & it's body coloured engine bay.

[Ando]

FYI.  A mate sent me these to inspect. Two are the small type & the other large cast iron MC body style.

 

It looks to be the MC were cast only a month or two old before they were assembled & put into service. (white paint pen)

 

The Big Nut has a later date stamped on them. (For this photo see my black texter pen mark to left). 

 

I can now presume there could've been a slight time lag between the latest part dates, preceding the actual vehicle's build date. 

 

I'm thinking up to a month possibly..

 

 

 IMG_4003.jpg   53.79K   5 downloads

 

Ando

Edited by Ando, 20 March 2018 - 09:42 AM.

[S pack]

This should be a '76 BLX... 27a car with the smaller tank cast iron MC.   Before ADR 31

 

Hard to say for sure though.. It does have the exhaust emission manifold but it has the earlier (601 style) side fuel inlet Rochester?? 

 

I think it's almost safe to say my 9/76 car would've had the this type MC.

 

Do others agree..happy to be corrected if I've got it wrong.

 

Ando

Agree Ando, your 9/76 hatch was fitted with the smaller pre ADR31 cast iron M/Cyl. 

The larger ADR31 M/cyl is from 1/01/1977.

Edited by S pack, 20 March 2018 - 10:36 AM.

[Dr Terry]

Does 'virtually' mean some weren't?

 

If owners of any that weren't have different results; this can start arguments, lol

 

s

AFAIK 99.9% of LH & LX were built in the Dandenong. 

 

It was only a few prototypes or pilot builds which came out of Elizabeth.

 

These would be all early cars with black under bonnets.

 

It would appear from the few replies so far that the changeover time is around April '76.

 

Dr Terry

[308 Sunbird]

Terry my 2/76 hatch is black, mates one owner 3/76 5000 is black, brothers 8/76 hatch is body colour.