653 replies to this topic

[grumpy xu1]

Do all of the bog work, over the epoxy mate & the re epoxy etch over the repairs to seal them off, at least you haven't really done many repairs so far. Give you a much better & longer lasting result. The car master hi build is alright, don't thin it out though.

[sibhs]

Thanks Marty.
I am enjoyong all of the metal work thats for sure.
I plan to do all of the primer stages including high fill etc. Unsure if I will tackle the colour at this stage though as I want it done in a booth as Im planning to use 2k paints not acrylics.
The reason i decided to simply use fish oil to protect whilst i am still working on it is that it is cheap and it washes off easily before the next repair job.
I also didnt realize u could leave the rust blast on without washing it off as you say, every thing i read about it says you need to wash it off.
I have brought 4litres of the rust blast and i do plan to prep the entire car with it before all paint stages as u have suggested.
Why would you not paint the underside of the car with the kbs rust seal?
I was planning to spray the inside and bottom with it and i have already brought the paint.
I do plan to paint my repairs as well since you told me that also but now i am wprried about painting the repairs on the seen panels if it looks shit.
I am now thinking of painting the raptor bed liner underneath the car over the KBS rust seal.


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Thanks bud.


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Hi Mitch

If your fish oil washes off easily it doesn't seam right. Fish oil is designed to be sprayed in doors, cavities etc and not wash out with water. Try not to use oils, wax's and definitely no silicone before you paint the car. Paint does not like these products.  There is also a product called Easy Phos which protects your bare metal and is paint friendly. I've heard good reports on it but think it's very expensive.

 

Regarding leaving Rust Blast on, I was told this when speaking to their tech. It's not in their instructions. But you will have to re-apply rust blast and wash off before etch.

 

Regarding Rust Seal underneath, that'll be ok if your going over it with the Raptor but you need to apply Raptor before Rust Seal fully cures or you'll have to sand it all.  I love Rust Seal but not has a final finish, it will have runs, bubbles and brush lines no matter what they say about self levelling.

From memory you have a great looking floor pan, if you Raptor it you loose all those beautiful factory lines and joins. Those sorts of finishes are great for hiding imperfections, you've got nothing to hide. If you just 2K it it'll look amazing and unless your driving on gravel roads it's very tough.

Paint Rust Seal on your repairs and you'll see how it works its way into any weld holes and completely encapsulates the weld. Then etch. 

 

You are getting loads of great info from members here, soak it all up and make your own mind up on what you think is correct. I remember getting heaps of conflicting advice but just thought it through and used common sense. But there's more than one way to skin a cat. Also remember the professionals work in different conditions to us and they want to get the car finished quickly, - so they have a different agenda.

Using paint stripper doesn't bother me because there is so much washing down with hose, sanding and time before etch/paint goes near the car.

 

Keep up the good work

 

Marty

Edited by sibhs, 13 April 2020 - 12:53 AM.

[Mitchyboy]

Hi Mitch
If your fish oil washes off easily it doesn't seam right. Fish oil is designed to be sprayed in doors, cavities etc and not wash out with water. Try not to use oils, wax's and definitely no silicone before you paint the car. Paint does not like these products. There is also a product called Easy Phos which protects your bare metal and is paint friendly. I've heard good reports on it but think it's very expensive.

Regarding leaving Rust Blast on, I was told this when speaking to their tech. It's not in their instructions. But you will have to re-apply rust blast and wash off before etch.

Regarding Rust Seal underneath, that'll be ok if your going over it with the Raptor but you need to apply Raptor before Rust Seal fully cures or you'll have to sand it all. I love Rust Seal but not has a final finish, it will have runs, bubbles and brush lines no matter what they say about self levelling.
From memory you have a great looking floor pan, if you Raptor it you loose all those beautiful factory lines and joins. Those sorts of finishes are great for hiding imperfections, you've got nothing to hide. If you just 2K it it'll look amazing and unless your driving on gravel roads it's very tough.
Paint Rust Seal on your repairs and you'll see how it works its way into any weld holes and completely encapsulates the weld. Then etch.

You are getting loads of great info from members here, soak it all up and make your own mind up on what you think is correct. I remember getting heaps of conflicting advice but just thought it through and used common sense. But there's more than one way to skin a cat. Also remember the professionals work in different conditions to us and they want to get the car finished quickly, - so they have a different agenda.
Using paint stripper doesn't bother me because there is so much washing down with hose, sanding and time before etch/paint goes near the car.

Keep up the good work

Marty

So Marty whenever you spray or paint KBS rust seal do you always etch before it fully dries? Even on all of your repairs? Do you do 2 coats of the KBS?
I did read that you had to sand the KBS rust seal if it fully dries with 180 grit but just enough for the next paint to key into it. Is that correct? U just need to scuff it up yeah?
I have read conflicting things about spraying different paints ontop of other paints before they are fully dry.
Now I'm more confused haha. Sorry for the 20 questions.
The reason i want to use the raptor liner is for tuffness and you will never really see underside of the car, it is a 75 model car with 45 years of road use below so The raptor liner should hide all small imperfections plus another member on here did it with a super fine spray texture and it looked awesome.
Ive added photos i hope they dont mind I screen shot them ages ago when i first saw it.

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[Mitchyboy]

Found the instructions for top coating KBS.
Paint needs to be tacked off, touch dry to not leave a finger print.
If fully dry scuff with 320 grit.


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[sibhs]

So Marty whenever you spray or paint KBS rust seal do you always etch before it fully dries? Even on all of your repairs? Do you do 2 coats of the KBS?
I did read that you had to sand the KBS rust seal if it fully dries with 180 grit but just enough for the next paint to key into it. Is that correct? U just need to scuff it up yeah?
I have read conflicting things about spraying different paints ontop of other paints before they are fully dry.
Now I'm more confused haha. Sorry for the 20 questions.
The reason i want to use the raptor liner is for tuffness and you will never really see underside of the car, it is a 75 model car with 45 years of road use below so The raptor liner should hide all small imperfections plus another member on here did it with a super fine spray texture and it looked awesome.

 

I only do two coats of KBS on really critical areas that always rust like bottoms of inside doors, plenum chamber etc.

Most areas one coat and etch will be more than enough protection. Some times i just sand the KBS before etching, it all depends on the area. If it has lots of creases and corners its best to etch before it cures otherwise its hard to sand all those little hidden areas. Areas that are hidden away like between inner and outer sills I just do two coats of rust seal with no etch, leaving the mating areas with just copper coat primer. Once car painted fully flood these areas with cavity wax.

 

I've a tip for brushes for KBS. Because you go through so many brushes with this product I have some 100mm brushes that I pull the ferrel and handle off. Then with a chisel break it up into about 20 little brushes. If bristles are loose I tape them into a bundle and dip the handle end into some left over rust seal to hold it all together then remove tape.

 

Marty

[Mitchyboy]

I only do two coats of KBS on really critical areas that always rust like bottoms of inside doors, plenum chamber etc.
Most areas one coat and etch will be more than enough protection. Some times i just sand the KBS before etching, it all depends on the area. If it has lots of creases and corners its best to etch before it cures otherwise its hard to sand all those little hidden areas. Areas that are hidden away like between inner and outer sills I just do two coats of rust seal with no etch, leaving the mating areas with just copper coat primer. Once car painted fully flood these areas with cavity wax.

I've a tip for brushes for KBS. Because you go through so many brushes with this product I have some 100mm brushes that I pull the ferrel and handle off. Then with a chisel break it up into about 20 little brushes. If bristles are loose I tape them into a bundle and dip the handle end into some left over rust seal to hold it all together then remove tape.

Marty

Thanks again Marty. Legend


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[Mitchyboy]

We pulled the K frame apart today.
Used the threaded rod method to keep the tension of the spring to pull it all apart.
It Worked awesome.
Got the sand blaster going this afternoon and sand blasted the K frame.
Still needs another hit in some places, plus some of the holes need a weld fix and heaps of weld splatter etc to take care of.
Some dodgy looking welds on there good ol holden haha
Planning to spray it with KBS rust seal, couple of questions, seeing as though I sand blasted it should I degrease it and rust blast it aswell?
It says u can paint it straight on just wanna see what otgers have done.
Also what has every one done to the inside of the K frame?
Seems too hard to sand blast up in there, was thinking to degrease and rust blast inside, brush the inside with KBS and spray the outside.



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[308 Sunbird]

That cleaned up a treat Mitch. 

[Com_VC]

Do those sandblasters work well, thinking I may get one at some stage.

[Mitchyboy]

Do those sandblasters work well, thinking I may get one at some stage.

Yeah bud it worked awesome when u get it going. I did all that in about 35 - 40mins.
I had a bit of trouble using it/setting it up the first time the other arvo. u really need to sift the sand i got, i just used fly screen mesh and i used the 2.5mm tip and i brought play sand from bunnings and dried it out. 6 bucks for 20 kg the sand worked fine.
Garnet sand is about $40- 60 for 15 - 20kg.
Need a big compressor though


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[claysummers]

20 kg bag of dried sand is about $10 from building supplies. Don’t need to dry or sift it. All you need is $25 gun with hose and sand in a bucket and yes a big compressor. It is hell messy. Wait until the wind is blowing toward your least favourite neighbours.


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Edited by claysummers, 19 April 2020 - 12:40 PM.

[sibhs]

Again I'll say don't rust seal it! Give it a rust blast which will protect inside bits that might be rusty then etch it and 2K Black.  

How many rusty K Frames do you see? Next to none, it doesn't need rust seal and rust seal looks shitty IMO.

 

Do what you want Clay, It would be good to get others opinion on it though.

 

I heard you shouldn't use normal sand to blast with. Too much silica which will kill you in 20 years time. A bit like the kitchen stone tops cutting disease.

 

Marty

[warrenm]

Marty is correct with the sand, there are other products available that doesn't give you Silicosis.

[claysummers]

Yes it’s nasty. The pot blasters are no different? I have a cabinet you can fit rims in. I use glass beads in that but bit exe if you’re not reusing it like outside. Wear a proper mask at least. Generally I use citric acid bath where possible. That is what I use my green wheely bin for. The garden waste goes in a pile to rot away or gets burnt. That’s bad for you too. Oh well have to die of something they say. Silicosis though would not be fun.


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[Mitchyboy]

20 kg bag of dried sand is about $10 from building supplies. Don’t need to dry or sift it. All you need is $25 gun with hose and sand in a bucket and yes a big compressor. It is hell messy. Wait until the wind is blowing toward your least favourite neighbours.


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Mate my wife gave me a serving the next day for having clouds of dust over our neighbours yard haha.
We got an email from the real estate just the other week about noise (me grinding) which we suspect is them too hahaa Ooops.
I knew it was a bit dangerous with the play sand and the silicosous etc but i was out side wind blowing fully masked up with charcoal canister respirator and a hood so im not worried about it to be honest.


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[Mitchyboy]

Again I'll say don't rust seal it! Give it a rust blast which will protect inside bits that might be rusty then etch it and 2K Black.
How many rusty K Frames do you see? Next to none, it doesn't need rust seal and rust seal looks shitty IMO.

Do what you want Clay, It would be good to get others opinion on it though.

I heard you shouldn't use normal sand to blast with. Too much silica which will kill you in 20 years time. A bit like the kitchen stone tops cutting disease.

Marty

Mate I am planning to rust seal the k frame and all of my suspension parts to be fair.
I am going to spray the KBS rust seal paint on so it looks better as opposed to brushing it on.
If im not happy with the finish i can always top coat it later if need be.
It's not going to be a trailer queen so never really be seen as long as its black it will be sweet, i am looking forward to testing out the spray skills finally hahaa

Cheers

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[Mitchyboy]

Leading up to last weekend i had a play in the shed a couple of arvos.
I welded up the shock holes to make circle again on the k frame, fixed up some other welds and grinded back all dags and welds etc. I then KBS degreased and KBS rust blasted the k frame fully inside and out, all ready for paint now.
Had to work Saturday Anzac day which sucked balls.
Some of you would be happy to know i brought some garnet sand for sand blasting, i found it at a inner city hardware for 33 bucks for 25kgs cheapest around so far.
I found that the first sand i had worked well 1st go but 2nd go not as good 3rd go dust and very dusty and dangerous.
I made up a shitty little sand blast tub this arvo in an attempt to keep the wife happy with less mess and save me sweeping up for an hour or 2.
Used the new garnet sand
Worked ok, not 100% air tight but its alot better clean up an kept my mess contained.
Cleaned up the steering arms well l, rust blasted also and now ready for paint.


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[claysummers]

Hydro or wet blasting is apparently a lot less mess but I believe you need big air. That subframe looks nice. All the work you’ve done there you want to go for a good finish. You don’t need to rust treat it now. Just deoxedine metal prep, ranex or whatever, then wax and grease remover wipe on wipe off and hit it with Epotec or some sort of epoxy 2k etch. Otherwise 1k etch but top coat will be needed to seal it up.


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[Mitchyboy]

Hydro or wet blasting is apparently a lot less mess but I believe you need big air. That subframe looks nice. All the work you’ve done there you want to go for a good finish. You don’t need to rust treat it now. Just deoxedine metal prep, ranex or whatever, then wax and grease remover wipe on wipe off and hit it with Epotec or some sort of epoxy 2k etch. Otherwise 1k etch but top coat will be needed to seal it up.


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But its already metal prepped with KBS rust blast.
I can paint anything on it now as it is.

The Orange rusty look of it now from my understanding is the zinc phosphate left from the rust blast.
I already have the KBS paint so that's the plan.
Seems alot more work to now go and paint 2 x coats of epoxy primer then 2 x coats of 2 k colour on when i could simply just paint 2 x coats of the paint i already have
Cheers Clay

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Edited by Mitchyboy, 28 April 2020 - 06:07 AM.

[claysummers]

As long as you are happy with it.
Have to admit I’m not familiar with the KBS. Has a very good reputation. Rather than strip all the surface rust under my project I painted with a phosphate conversion paint, Endura Paints Phoenix Metalfix. Descale, degrease and two coats, finished. Rock hard, impermeable and heat proof. Not a show car finish but you can paint anything over it once cured.

Keep going, your smashing it.


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[Mitchyboy]

As long as you are happy with it.
Have to admit I’m not familiar with the KBS. Has a very good reputation. Rather than strip all the surface rust under my project I painted with a phosphate conversion paint, Endura Paints Phoenix Metalfix. Descale, degrease and two coats, finished. Rock hard, impermeable and heat proof. Not a show car finish but you can paint anything over it once cured.

Keep going, your smashing it.


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Cheers Clay
Iam looking into the Hq front brake conversion now aswell seeing as though it is all apart, also because I have hq rear brakes on my 10 bolt Salisbury diff so it makes sense.
Do you or anyone know if the hopper stopper kits are worth the coin? Are they better than going just HQ brake set up?
I been reading so much about it and i read so many conflicting things to do with steering geometry.
I got a quote for 1600bucks and a 2 week wait for the front kit with vemted discs.
I can prob do the HQ conversion for 500- 600
Dunno what to do.


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[Rockoz]

KBS works really well even when brushed on. It self levels really well.

You will still get a few brush marks here and there, but I found they were in areas that I didnt put it on thick enough.

I started out using a tin of KBS that I had laying around for close to 10 years. It was a lot thicker than fresh stuff, but still did the job well.

The thicker stuff gave a better coverage to be honest.

But I stuffed up with that tin, and it started to really thicken up. I didnt put the lid on properly.

It cures with exposure to the moisture in the air.

I tried thinning it out, but ended up with a congealed mess in the tin.

Bought a new tin, but being thin, I was getting a few runs.

So thinner coats, and the recommended 2 coats works a treat.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[Mitchyboy]

Haven't played with the car as much as I would like in the last 2 week's. Worked a couple of Saturday's and the Mrs barred me from playing in the shed on our anniversary weekend Hahaa.
Had a little play yesterday.
Tidied up the welds on the bonnet and boot and got my bro and Dad to help me KBS degrease and rust seal both panels.
All ready for paint. Had a little audience from my niece sticky beaking aswell haha.
Decided to pull the front off of the diff to see how good the centre was. The guybi brought it from told me it was tricked up.
Have a look at it. WTF.
It is fried yeah. I am upset looks like I am up for a new diff center and axles at least. Dunno if it's worth even fixing.
Any advice appreciated.
Have a look how melted it all is can't believe it
Crazy

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[Toranamat69]

Your diff is a CIG locker. Ive made a few myself for my offroad hack over the years.

[Mitchyboy]

Your diff is a CIG locker. Ive made a few myself for my offroad hack over the years.

Really? So is that a good thing?
I thought it looked like weld.
My old man reckons it's fried.
Can I still use it? It's 3.55 ratio


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Just googled it
Doesn't sound promising hahaa

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