28 replies to this topic

[Shiney005]

I am trying to collate all of the info on the forum on Holden alternators into one thread.  There is no shortage of info on the LC and LJ Toranas, (although not all of it can be correct) but I can't find much at all on the bigger cars.

First of all, I cannot find any proof that any Torana built after Jan 1974 has ever been fitted with a Lucas alternator, even though they are in the parts books and workshop manuals. This flies in the face of a few "elderly" gentlemen that I have contacted who seem to remember them on L34's and other early LH's. My L34 has a Bosch, but it is missing the 3 inch pulley so it may have been replaced. Eyepeeler's has a Bosch with the (very rare) original pulley.

So if anyone can provide proof of a Lucas being factory fitted then please post it up.

 

I am also chasing part numbers from original Bosch alternators. At this stage of my investigations, I believe that early 1974 should be around 9 120 060 805 (55amp) and October 1975 is 9 120 060 847 (40amp), which also runs into 1976.

 

It would be great to get confirmation and photos of alternators fitted to A9X, UC (inc 4 cyl) and all models in the LH-LX range.

 

Cheers guys.

 

 Hanras original Bosch with 85 amp internals. October 75 build 1 (1).jpg   80.23K   7 downloads

 

[hanra]

Interesting.

 

 

Attached Files

•  Capture.JPG   22.46K   12 downloads
•  Capture.JPG   70.17K   12 downloads

Edited by hanra, 08 August 2019 - 01:44 PM.

[hanra]

Dosnt look like 14V40A22 was listed. 

Attached Files

•  Capture.JPG   29.8K   11 downloads

Edited by hanra, 08 August 2019 - 02:09 PM.

[grumpy xu1]

By memory, out of the 6 or 7 lc, lj lh & lx's we've had, i think only a 73 lj, was a lucas, but my brother had a HX & I've got a feeling it may of had a lucas, I'm pretty sure it had something lucas (may have been the starter), as Dad used to hate the lucas parts, & they used to get a new home at the tip, other family gmh's were all bosch i think. Gary.

[Shiney005]

Brad, I have yet to see a Bosch alternator that was made post HG Holden that was rated at 35 amps.  I reckon there is some old info in the manuals.

I do agree however that the HQ external reg alternator is the same as the internal reg in the LH, apart from the fact that early HQ had a sticker with the part number, rather than have it stamped into the housing.

H.Q. below.

 

 Bosch Bedford and HQ 6 cyl and HQ 8 cyl external regulator. No part number on housing..jpg   62.78K   10 downloads

 

Grumpy, from what I have seen, the big Holden's seemed to have a mixture of the two. Not sure if all were externally regulated.

 

[torana74]

I've never seen a 55amp factory fit on a torana.  Infact 35 bosch or lucas has been it. No 40's.(or i treated the 40's as 35'sand can't remember) The only ones that *might*  have had a 55 in my opinion would be factory A/C  cars,,,  and poss A9X  due  to load.  Heck VH commodores without air had 35's. and they carried the  sometimes Bosch ,sometimes lucas tradition.  Same with starters.  Both brands removed from original vehicles.

Edited by torana74, 11 August 2019 - 07:39 PM.

[torana74]

Also in that first 40amp pic, that stator is not off an orig 40amp.or 55 etc . 

[S pack]

Brad, I have yet to see a Bosch alternator that was made post HG Holden that was rated at 35 amps.  I reckon there is some old info in the manuals.

I do agree however that the HQ external reg alternator is the same as the internal reg in the LH, apart from the fact that early HQ had a sticker with the part number, rather than have it stamped into the housing.

H.Q. below.

 

Bosch Bedford and HQ 6 cyl and HQ 8 cyl external regulator. No part number on housing..jpg

 

Grumpy, from what I have seen, the big Holden's seemed to have a mixture of the two. Not sure if all were externally regulated.

HQ production changed to a mix of external & internal reg alternators at the same time as LJ Torana. By 1973 all LJ & HQ production was fitted with internal reg units.

Edited by S pack, 11 August 2019 - 10:30 PM.

[hanra]

Also in that first 40amp pic, that stator is not off an orig 40amp.or 55 etc .

Well spotted. It’s had a modern Bosch alternator fitted to the old case.

[Shiney005]

I've never seen a 55amp factory fit on a torana.  Infact 35 bosch or lucas has been it. No 40's.(or i treated the 40's as 35'sand can't remember)

I haven't even been able to find a picture of a 35 amp Bosch with the part number stamped into the housing.  It is obviously not a part that anybody felt was worth documenting.  Who owns the "new" A9X now that Andy has sold it? I believe it is over east somewhere.

[Shiney005]

I knew I had some photos of it somewhere.

Looks like a 55 amp Bosch.

 

 New A9X.JPG   113.08K   9 downloads

 

Did they all have the glass fuse?

 

 New A9X a.JPG   81.73K   7 downloads

[yel327]

Here is the info out of the LH and LX Features manuals. The third piece is the only mention of engine electrical variation in the L34 supplement dated July 1974.

 

 LH alternator.jpg   81.99K   10 downloads

 

 LX alternator.jpg   73.96K   9 downloads

 

 L34 alternator.jpg   22.78K   9 downloads

 

 

 

Edited by yel327, 27 August 2019 - 03:57 PM.

[Shiney005]

I appreciate you looking this up Byron.  I am however still to see even a picture of a Bosch 35 amp alternator that is internally regulated and has a part number even close to what was around from 1974 to 1977.  They are obviously what was fitted, it is just that nobody has ever taken a photo of one. 

 

The picture below is of another very low usage (under 1000 kays) A9X, and shows the alternator having a stator large enough to be 55 amp, so maybe the thermo fan was reason enough to fit them.  Also note that both of the A9Xs have the standard pulley, and not the 3 inch pulley fitted to L34s.

 

 Alternator.jpg   66.23K   9 downloads

[RallyRed]

re: Byron's sheets...
wonder why the 4cyl had a bigger Alt, and was rated at 14v and not 13.5v?

[yel327]

The books I have show the internally regulated Bosch as 9 120 060 800. Says it is a 14V35A20. This is all the mid to late 70s non A/C 6cyl and V8 Holden, Statesman and Torana

[Rockoz]

Think the glass fuse is an add  on.

Almost as troublesome to electrical systems as those stupid blue line splices that were used mainly for trailer wiring,but found their way into lots of spots.

Can remember replacing lots of Bosch alternators in old Holdens.

Mates servo had stacks of them in a heap.

Usually replaced with Lucas inbuilt regulators.

Local Lucas Service supplier was always on his game to keep the placed stocked up with the popular types.

Made lots of brackets up over the years to fit them to all sorts of things.

 

Cheers

 

Rob 

[yel327]

I appreciate you looking this up Byron.  I am however still to see even a picture of a Bosch 35 amp alternator that is internally regulated and has a part number even close to what was around from 1974 to 1977.  They are obviously what was fitted, it is just that nobody has ever taken a photo of one. 

 

The picture below is of another very low usage (under 1000 kays) A9X, and shows the alternator having a stator large enough to be 55 amp, so maybe the thermo fan was reason enough to fit them.  Also note that both of the A9Xs have the standard pulley, and not the 3 inch pulley fitted to L34s.

 

Alternator.jpg

 

I'll have a look at what I have in my shed. I threw heaps of them away when I moved though, and most of the cars I pulled apart were higher spec anyway (like 5.0L air and steer) so would have had 55A Lucas on them. I doubt I would have kept any run of the mill standard stuff, but I'll see.

 

The only place in the books I have that shows 55A Bosch is VB Commodore onwards, no mention of it in earlier Holden, Statesman or Torana. All of those show a Lucas for 55A applications. The option A9X supplement to the Features manual and where option A9X has been added to the Production Option Availability docs makes no mention of an alternator change over the standard SLR or SS, but given these cars were so late in LX and most were into HZ engine production it is possible they stuck them in there. You'd think there would be a record of it somehwere though.

 

LX option A9X would never have needed the larger pulley as it wasn't a race car. Only the factory race cars got them afaik, such as HT/G GTS350 manual, XU1 and LH with L34 engine.

[yel327]

I had a look in the shed. As I though lots of 55A Lucas off higher optioned cars, and a lot of earlier HK-HQ externally regulated Bosch. One of the internally regulated Bosch ones had a yellow sticker like the HK-HG style, but I found one each of 35A, 40A and 55A internally regulated Bosch with numbers stamped into them. See photos.

 

 9 120 060 800.jpg   170.7K   5 downloads

 9 120 060 805.jpg   205.93K   4 downloads

 9 120 060 849.jpg   214.09K   4 downloads

Edited by yel327, 28 August 2019 - 05:28 PM.

[Shiney005]

Excellent work. For LH at least, the top one would have to be the go.  

 

9 120 060 800

14V 35A20

 

I will still hesitate on LX for the moment as one forum member with an early 308 SS was saying that his was original and the number was 9 120 060 847. Although, that is a 40 amp, so not really fitting in.

[hanra]

Gahhhhhhhh..... Ive got the wrong alternator fitted.... 

[Shiney005]

I bet your wires don't even have 1975 vintage smoke in them Brad.

 

Byron, can you pm me your email address please? Your inbox is full on the forum.

Edited by Shiney005, 29 August 2019 - 11:29 AM.

[yel327]

I have 9 120 060 847 as a blue motor 40A and 9 120 060 848 as blue motor 55A.

 

I also found reference to a 9 120 060 702 as a 35A alternative to the 9 120 060 800 for HJ commercial, and 9 120 060 722 as a 55A alternative to 9 120 060 805 for the same HJ commercial application.

 

9 120 060 829 40A is listed for 1978-9 CF Bedford with 202. Also for HZ 3.3 auto and VB 4.2L.

 

9 120 060 735 35A for 1973-9 Bedford with a 250ci Chevrolet 6cyl.

 

It looks like Toyota also used 827 and 849 on Corolla and Corona.

 

I deleted a few messages so you should be able to reach me.

[Seymour Beer 1]

I came across a Bosch 9 120 060 681 40 amp alternator with a 3 inch pulley. The pulley is painted matt black as mentioned in other alternator discussions. I have not seen this one mentioned in the LJ discussions, so maybe it belongs in LH or on other Holdens?

 9120 060 681 Alt 1 Rszd.jpg   174.74K   3 downloads

 9120 060 681 Alt 2 Rszd.jpg   173.08K   3 downloads

 9120 060 681 Alt 3 Rszd.jpg   190.4K   2 downloads

 9120 060 681 Alt 4 Rszd.jpg   209.02K   3 downloads

 

 

[S pack]

The only reference I can find to Bosch Alternator part number 9120060681 is for a Chrysler Valiant AP5 to CL.

Part number 3710294 is not in the LH Torana parts catalogue.

 

The date code 425 on your alternator translates to May 1974 and looking at your pics the upper mounting does not look correct for a Holden.

[Seymour Beer 1]

Thanks for the reply Dave. Is the pulley the same as on the Holden alternators?