30 replies to this topic

[Shiney005]

https://www.hagerty....0f7L3hIAmr4e1Qg

 Electric-crate-motor-scaled.jpg   172.13K   7 downloads

[yel327]

All well and good, Until you fit batteries! Then your HZ Sandman is suddenly undriveable as the weight carrying capacity is a meagre 500kg including passengers!

[axistr]

All well and good, Until you fit batteries! Then your HZ Sandman is suddenly undriveable as the weight carrying capacity is a meagre 500kg including passengers!

Delete Cooling system, engine, transmission, fuel tank and 80lts of fuel, clutch and plus fluids. Then add n electric motor and batteries in the right spots for a better CG and I think the weight would still be in favor of the battery box. Plus the extra power to weight of the electric motor advantage. I think the electric advantage is way up there. Only thing the electric conversion misses out on is the sound, vibration and the range. Electric is cheaper to run per km. No regular servicing and no fuel tax. Its only a matter of time. Hate to see the ICE engines stopping development and production but the future is going to be interesting. There will be a lot of development in batteries over the next 10 years and probably half the weight and 10 fold in the distance on a single charge. I bet the old engineers in the early 1900s never dreamed of the cars we have today. Bring on the future so long as I can have a bit of fuel every so on so I take out one of my dinosours.  

[yel327]

Yes when battery technology improves. And yes once we get sufficient generation AND distribution to charge them all. But until then, forget it. We don’t have the generation, transmission or distribution infrastructure for mass rollout of electric vehicles. It is a simple equation.

As for battery weight, you would need a hell of a lot of battery capacity to operate that bad boy. With current technology I reckon the weight penalty would be hefty and you’d end up with more load on your rear axle than the front. Good for a C20 but useless in a Camaro!

[rexy]

I think I will keep the BBC in the HQ for now.

[yel327]

Yes agree. Preferably with a blower on it!

[MictheAussie]

The new Tesla 4680 batteries released last month will make battery packs lighter and range much further for their size. 

https://www.theverge...s-day-elon-musk

[rodomo]

I wish I could unsee this thread.

[axistr]

Don't get me wrong I'm a petrol/diesel boy through and through. I only thought 10 years ago I probably wouldn't see the current generation of electric and self driving cars in my life time. Everyone compares every electric car with the Tesla. But many car makers have now overtaken Tesla in performance and range. Just look at the new Porsche, I live on the out skirts north west Sydney in the mountain foot hills, if I did have to recharge my electric car I only have to drive 15-20 minutes to a recharge station. Within a 25km range there are more than 25 charging stations. When I drove to Melbourne two years ago I could have driven from Sydney to Melbourne, stopped 45minutes for lunch and charge the car at one of three Hume hwy charge stations, that's 900km drive for only 45 minutes down time. and cheaper to charge than a happy meal. Same thing going to QLD these days.

 

There are more charging stations than most are aware. Don't think I will be heading to far west yet. If you live within a 150km radius of a major capital city you don't need to bother with running low on charge. How many times a month do you dive from home more the 600km return i n one go anyway. You would plug the car into your house power point the nigh before to make sure you had full range anyway.   At least with batteries you can put them anywhere you like to get a much better C of G. Placing them as most new EV vehicle manufactures do under the floor in the centre   I doesn't get much better than that for handling. Bloody Holden have never had a good weight distribution and GC. I reckon the weight saving of a V8 twin system converted to battery weight and power would be enough to power the car for 40-50km.I will never pull the engine out of my Aston Martin and put in a whizzer but next time I decide to update my daily I will consider looking at what EVs are out there. The new Porsche Taycan does look tempting.    

Edited by axistr, 08 October 2020 - 09:55 AM.

[yel327]

That is all good until 50% of us switch to EV’s. Then we won’t have the power to charge them. Or the infrastructure to get the power to your car to charge it. Meaning electricity cost will be through the roof. Unless there is major breakthrough in generation and/or storage of power it does not add up. If you do the sums on half of say NSW changing to current EV’s, we would need probably another 4-5 Bayswater/Eraring size power stations just for the extra load, also a massive increase in transmission lines to get the power to the major cities. Plus night time will no longer be cheap “off-peak” electricity, which is when most people will want to charge their cars. It will be the peak period as there will be no solar infeed so rather than 10-15c per kWh it will be 35-50c per kWh. My personal prediction is we need a big breakthrough in generation before we will see a mass uptake of EV’s. Hopefully local neighbourhood generation, maybe hydrogen fuel cells.

I for one will not be driving and then stopping for hours waiting in line for my car to be charged. Bugger that. I’d have a hybrid Ram1500 though when the next gen of batteries arrives.

[Redslur]

This technology has absolutely no appeal to me in the slightest. Old Skool cars should not be fitted with this technology as it wrecks it for me. Leave that stuff for the newer more modern era of car. YUK!!!

[yel327]

The technology is appealing, it is the logistics that isn’t. I love the idea that I could drop that into an old 70’s C20 with batteries under the tray. What I don’t love is the environmental negatives of the current battery technology, the limited life of the batteries and the logistics of conveniently charging them. Not to mention the cost of the batteries.

Edited by yel327, 08 October 2020 - 11:21 AM.

[Shiney005]

A smaller cheaper version in an old Suzuki Sierra would make a great roo shooter. Nice an quiet. 

[axistr]

A smaller cheaper version in an old Suzuki Sierra would make a great roo shooter. Nice an quiet. 

Ha Ha, I am with you Laurie, sneak up in stealth mode and give them a lead surprise. 

 

I think your missing the point yel327 I have enough solar panels on the roof to supply all my needs and with a battery I could charge both car and battery during the day and finish charging with the solar battery at night. Yes I wouldn't like to travel on a long weekend interstate and line up behind 50 cars to charged. That's when I would take the Ranger. As said I for one will hate to see the end of our current ICE engines. Its taken over 100 years to develop the tech we enjoy now. We need oil for plastics, lubrication and a whole heap of other things, once we burn it all its gone forever. ( its easy to recycle waste oil and plastics) Adding more EVs will help preserve fuel for our dinosaur's so we can enjoy the V8 noise till our generation are all done and dusted. 

[yel327]

That is where the arguments for the EV falls down. Solar only works at any decent output between roughly 10am and 3pm, outside of that the output is not great, unless you have the panels tracking the sun. So unless you are at home during those hours for the solar panels to charge the batteries in the EV it cannot work. Plus to “slow” charge an EV you need about 10 hours at 15-20A. You require a whole lot more current to charge it faster. If you are going to charge batteries with solar and then charge EV batteries from that battery you have a fairly inefficient system, probably down near 70% or less. That house battery is going to have to provide say 20A at 240V for near 10 hours with the battery staying above the minimum discharge level. Would have to be a pretty big battery, just a rough calc of probably 50KWh. That is 4 Tesla Powerwalls plus the solar capacity to charge them which is probably about 25kW of panels. Probably a minimum of $60,000 of quality equipment. Just rough calcs though.

[yel327]

Also to clarify the above, that is a full charge on an EV. If you only use 20% of the battery then you need far less power to charge it, as low as 3kW of solar if you only do say 50km per day. BUT you’d be silly at current energy rates to charge your EV from a stored battery at night, it would be far more cost effective to use off peak grid energy to charge both the car and battery and whatever else needs power at night, then use battery storage during peak periods and export all excess solar energy to the grid that isn’t used in the house or used to keep batteries charged between fridge cut ins or kettle turned on periods etc.

Edited by yel327, 08 October 2020 - 04:30 PM.

[claysummers]

Trouble with electricity is it’s a bugger to store and I can’t see it changing. Alright batteries get better blah blah as we dig up all the lithium and spread mercury everywhere because carbon is supposed to be bad. Now we are fixated on electricity as the new energy medium. What about other forms of potential energy such as compressed air? Engine would be pretty simple and light although once again storage may be the issue.


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[yel327]

Hydro schemes are batteries. But again remember how many kW there are installed in cars across Australia. That energy is generated in the car from the fuel which is carried in the car. It is transported to fuel stations across the country by truck and/or by rail or by boat (which all also run on fuel).

So to replace that ICE with an electric motor all those kW (give or take) must be generated elsewhere outside the car. Plus you have to get the energy to the car somehow. We simply don’t have the generation or the transmission/distribution network to achieve it. Which is why I believe we need a leap in technology to achieve it. Not sure what it’ll be. It may be left field like Methane fuelled engines, Methane is created by captured CO2 mixed with H2 generated by solar energy.

[claysummers]

Yes we had a number of small hydro schemes mooted in SA but went quiet. Centralised generation vs local is a vexed debate really. It’s hard to get an objective view due to all the vested interest. Either way a lot mor infrastructure is required to be built and maintained. The first photo voltaic cells are hitting land fill now and we are only just starting to make them recyclable. I don’t buy the excuse that this couldn’t have been foreseen. Just rampant profiteering at play. Wait until the batteries start to need replacing. Surely they will be recycling them, but at what rate of efficiency?


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[Shiney005]

Well you can bet that the local dump won't be taking them for free.

[axistr]

We already have a startup company in Victoria that is recycling and reconditioning lithium batteries now. It wont be to long before we see more and also solar panel recycling. I think the future will have at least four types for transport energy, oil, alcohols, hydrogen, battery, and there is probably a fifth that hasn't been invented yet. The energy source that attracts the most tax in the end will probably be the most common. There is a lot of miss conceptions out there and many jump on the band wagon without doing any thinking of the big picture. I have a 6.5kw 3 phase north facing solar system on my house. On a good day I can produce up to 40kw per day. 55-60% of my power generation goes back into the grid. You wouldn't put a solar system in to only recharge your car, but I put the system on to reduce my power bills which now are next to nothing, but I would also have plenty to keep a daily EV charged without  heavily relying on the grid. My solar system paid for it self in just under five years. $1,000.00 per kw installed back eight years ago. I am in the middle of installing an additional 10kw system on the shed. At some time in the future I intend on fitting a battery. Using the guy next door as an example, Wayne has a 15kw inverter  with east & west facing panels. The system has 18kw of panels on the shed. He receives a credit of $600.00 per quarter summer and $300.00 on average winter bill credit. this is after he has exported his excess back into the grid. The 10kw system will cost me around $9,000.00 Putting $9,000 in a term deposit atm will net me a whopping $7.20c Spending $9,000 and I will have a return of approximatly $2,000.00 return on my money. Plus i get the benifit  of using more of my own energy. I will have enough power to run 2-3 EVs for a total cost of $10k and sill have no power bills and probably sill have power credits every quarter. Its not as hard as you would thing not to rely on our basic electricity grid.       

[yel327]

I agree on the solar setup. My setup put on 10 years ago died, about to put about 10kW on the shed on all three phases, should see little to no bills. Would be no good to charge an EV though as I’m not there to charge the car. I won’t put batteries on, yet. The sums don’t add up for them, but solar does big time.

[Heath]

Where do you connect your clutch pedal and shifter to?

Edited by Heath, 09 October 2020 - 02:39 PM.