77 replies to this topic

[ljv8]

Hey guy's,

 

Have a bit of an issue with my newly finished LC and my clutch taking up very close to the floor.  For example my foot needs to be buried deep into the clutch pedal and into the carpet to get it into first. 

 

I have a red 6, Aussie 4 spd, and a rat trap clutch mech.  It has been repaired, i.e elongated holes welded up so there is no slop or wear in the rat trap.

 

I have adjusted the clutch as per the manual and as has been described on this forum.  Wind in the bolt on the rod until there is no slack with the spring removed.  Then wind out 2.5 turns.  Put the spring back.  Sometimes it crunches in reverse if I don't have the clutch pedal mashed, and needs to be pushed all the way home to get it into first.  I can't use my carpet mats as the thickness prevents the clutch going all the way.

 

What I did is tightened the rod a couple of turns and it seemed slightly better but when I take off the flywheel inspection cover I can see the throw-out bearing is resting firmly on the teeth of the pressure plate.  Is this an issue?  I know we are not supposed to have the bearing constantly spinning. 

 

I'm assuming tightening the rod bolt will increase the clutch take-up position (clutch activate further from floor) and loosening will decrease the pedal take up (closer to floor).

 

Do we have any other way with a stock LC/LJ to increase the clutch take-up position, or do I just have to wind it in a bit more and accept potentially a constantly spinning throw-out bearing?

 

I don't think the pivot point for the throw-out fork is adjustable on the standard bell housing is it?

 

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

Steve.

[dublinxu1]

My pedal was exactly the same. My pivot ball is the push in type so I placed a couple of washers under it to space it out.Then I found that the clutch fork had a tiny crack where the ball goes and when it got hot the pedal got worse. Sorted that by finding a NOS fork. Lastly I completely dismantled the rat trap and rebuilt it so there was no play.
Pedal feel is now excellent with the clutch biting about an inch and a half from the floor.

Hope this helps

[S pack]

Pics of your rat trap Steve?

[ljv8]

Ah ok cool I didn't think the pivot ball came out, thanks Brian.  Yes same, I took it for an extended drive today and after it got quite hot was really difficult to get in 1st.  I know my fork is in really good condition so I think that should be okay. 

 

Thanks Dave, see pictures below.  Bit hard to get a good shot in a dark shed, it's back up on axle stands.

 

One thing I haven't done is get someone to stand on it, while I look and see what happens.  I.e if there is too much flex. 

 

 IMG_8558.png   473.3K   10 downloads

 

 IMG_8562.png   425.64K   7 downloads

 

 IMG_8563.png   428.09K   8 downloads

 

 IMG_8566.png   459.71K   7 downloads

[S pack]

Thanks for the pics Steve. Rat trap looks good except for the brace support bracket bolted to the bellhousing is incorrect for LC/LJ. You have a HK,T,G or HQ not sure which one. It might change the ratrap geometry although wouldn't think it would affect it to that extent. Short of having a dud pressure plate or installed the clutch plate arse about, that incorrect bracket may be the key to your problem.

[ljv8]

Ah thanks Dave much appreciated. I have a box of rat trap bits and thought that one was correct. I will check what I have and post a pic to see if it’s the correct one. Thanks for your help.

[ljv8]

Hey Dave can you please help me identify which is the correct LC bracket?  I have three, and I ended up using the one off my late 73 LJ from the 90's.  Now it was originally a three on the tree and the previous owner put a M20 in it, so who knows if the rat trap I have marked LJ is genuine or off something else as you suggested.  These cars have a long and tangled history.

 

Bracket currently on car
 Bell Housing Brackets 07.png   420.8K   9 downloads

 

I had the choice of three and ended up using the one on the left, which was off my original LJ.  Is potentially the one in the middle correct for the LC?

 Bell Housing Brackets 01.png   441.8K   7 downloads

 

 Bell Housing Brackets 02.png   481.05K   8 downloads

 

 Bell Housing Brackets 03.png   452.02K   5 downloads

 

 

[S pack]

The bracket in the middle is the correct part for LC/LJ.

 

The throwout fork return spring hooks into the hole in the crossmember outrigger.

 

If you were successfully using that brace bracket on your 73 LJ then it should work fine on your LC.

Edited by S pack, 25 November 2020 - 06:18 PM.

[ljv8]

The bracket I put on looks nothing like the LC shop manual.

 

 LC Shop Manual Rat Trap 01.png   326.09K   4 downloads

 

 LC Shop Manual Rat Trap 02.png   450.73K   3 downloads

 

Could this be the correct LC bracket?  Bit hard to tell from the photos but is probably the closest match compared to the others I have.

 

 Bell Housing Brackets 04.png   472.21K   5 downloads

 

 Bell Housing Brackets 08.png   619.7K   4 downloads

 

[S pack]

This is the correct bracket.

 

[ljv8]

Oh great you replied quick thanks heaps Dave, will clean it up and put it on.  Looking at the two it will change the angle of the support arm.  Thanks so much for your help.

 

One last question, the support arm I'm guessing the holes are not meant to be elongated, which probably has occurred over time through wear and tear.  This picture is my spare one, as you can see nice odd looking hole.  The one that is on the car I welded up, and re-drilled the hole to fit the pin without movement.  Did I do the right thing or is there supposed to be movement there?

 

 Elongated Arm.png   409.85K   2 downloads

[S pack]

I'll post a pick of a NOS part soon.

[Indy Orange]

http://www.gmh-toran...-brace-bracket/ I had a HK one on mine as Dave discovered ,must have been a common alternative,found a correct one.

[ljv8]

Ah thanks Paul, you had the same issue.  I didn't find your post when searching the forums earlier this week but I was looking for key words on clutch adjustment, didn't realize I had the wrong bracket until Dave called it out.  Agree, so many mods and band-aids over the years when it was a case of fit what you have or what was close enough! 

[grumpy xu1]

Dave is correct 100 % with the bracket + 2 spring washers on the 2 bolts. In regards to the curved arm, Dave & i have discussed if the end that goes onto the pin near rat trap mechanism (bolted end) could stay cylindrical & the other end be elongated, i have made the lc 1 like this already to try, but there's lots of other job's to get done before we get the chance to check it's operating abilities. That end if you look closely, is slightly twisted by memory.

[S pack]

NOS LC/LJ throwout fork pushrod and NOS Relay lever to bellhousing brace rod.

 LJ NOS Rat Trap parts.jpg   145.68K   15 downloads

[ljv8]

Oh wow thanks for sharing Dave, an important reference point.  I thought mine were worn out like the pivot points and bloody welded and re-drilled them.  Now I feel stupid, I should have realized that the brace arm doesn't move, it's only the pivots that move.  The ones in your picture are very close to what my spare brace and push rod look like.  I will have to take off the ones I welded up and put on my spare set.

[TOERUNNER]

NOS LC/LJ throwout fork pushrod and NOS Relay lever to bellhousing brace rod.

LJ NOS Rat Trap parts.jpg

Hey Dave or anyone else, do you know if the clip that holds the brace rod to the bellhousing bracket is available. I'm guessing that it is like the wiper mechanism clips only larger.

[S pack]

I'll check the parts cat later to see if the clip is the same.

[ljv8]

Thanks Gary your right I cleaned up the brace arm today and looking closely there is a slight twist to it (second photo), and thanks for the info. 

 

I cleaned up the LC/LJ bracket and compared to the bracket I had fitted there is a significant difference in the positioning of the support arm pin.  The LC/LJ bracket pin is about 3.8mm closer to the front of the car compared to what is a HK bracket.  See difference below, I'm sure this will have a major affect on the operation of the rat trap and clutch take-up so we can put that one to bed.

 

 Two brackets.png   494.66K   3 downloads

 

Now that I have my current push rod off, I have one in my spares box that's significantly longer (approx 465mm).  I had the shorter one fitted (approx 420mm).  It seemed to fit without but not sure if it's the correct LC/LJ rod or if the longer rod is for LC/LJ.

 

I had the shorter rod fitted, it seemed to fit well but again who knows if it's original?

 Rods 01.png   193.51K   5 downloads

 

Comparison of length of two rods.  I'm guessing one is LC/LJ and the other is potentially HK.

 Rods 02.png   525.91K   4 downloads

 

 Rods 03.png   483.24K   3 downloads

 

If anyone can verify how long the LC/LJ rod is it would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Steve.

Edited by ljv8, 26 November 2020 - 02:30 PM.

[TOERUNNER]

Thanks Gary your right I cleaned up the brace arm today and looking closely there is a slight twist to it (second photo), and thanks for the info. 

 

I cleaned up the LC/LJ bracket and compared to the bracket I had fitted there is a significant difference in the positioning of the support arm pin.  The LC/LJ bracket pin is about 3.8mm closer to the front of the car compared to what is a HK bracket.  See difference below, I'm sure this will have a major affect on the operation of the rat trap and clutch take-up so we can put that one to bed.

 

Two brackets.png

 

Now that I have my current push rod off, I have one in my spares box that's significantly longer (approx 465mm).  I had the shorter one fitted (approx 420mm).  It seemed to fit without but not sure if it's the correct LC/LJ rod or if the longer rod is for LC/LJ.

 

I had the shorter rod fitted, it seemed to fit well but again who knows if it's original?

Rods 01.png

 

Comparison of length of two rods.  I'm guessing one is LC/LJ and the other is potentially HK.

Rods 02.png

 

Rods 03.png

 

If anyone can verify how long the LC/LJ rod is it would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Steve.

Hey Steve, i havn't fitted my rat trap yet but i was told it was LJ. the push rod on mine measures 420 mm, hope that helps

[S pack]

Hey Steve, i havn't fitted my rat trap yet but i was told it was LJ. the push rod on mine measures 420 mm, hope that helps

Agree, 420mm is the correct length pushrod.
 

[ljv8]

Fantastic thanks Rodney and Dave for confirming much appreciated. 

[S pack]

Hey Dave or anyone else, do you know if the clip that holds the brace rod to the bellhousing bracket is available. I'm guessing that it is like the wiper mechanism clips only larger.

Hi Rodney. The GMH part number for the clip is 7429228. By the part number I'm figuring this clip was also used on Holdens as early as HD/HR + HK/T/G.

The clip is similar but not the same as the wiper link clip. 7429228 is also used to hold the clutch pull rod anchor to the clutch pedal.

I had a look on the Rare Spares site and could not find any clips that look correct.

 

Edited by S pack, 26 November 2020 - 06:44 PM.

[TOERUNNER]

T

 

Hi Rodney. The GMH part number for the clip is 7429228. By the part number I'm figuring this clip was also used on Holdens as early as HD/HR + HK/T/G.

The clip is similar but not the same as the wiper link clip. 7429228 is also used to hold the clutch pull rod anchor to the clutch pedal.

I had a look on the Rare Spares site and could not find any clips that look correct.

 

 

Thanks heaps mate i will have to see what i can find. Any idea what that style of clip would be called