Just wondering, im planning to convert my headlights to H4 globes and when the high beams are turned on, does it light up both the filaments in a H4 globe or does it shut off the low beam and only operate the high beam filament? I need to know how to setup the relays for the globes. Thanks everyone.
R Ant.
Headlight Globes H4
Started by
_Torana482HP_
, Dec 13 2005 07:59 PM
20 replies to this topic
#2
shanegtr
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Posted 13 December 2005 - 08:07 PM
As far as I know it just lights up the high beam filament. Supose you could wire it up to light up both, but it might heat the globe up to much and blow it out
#3
_Torana482HP_
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Posted 13 December 2005 - 08:13 PM
Yeah if they are made to just light up one at a time, then they will definately blow if both filaments are turned on at the same time - i spose i could do a test with an old one ( better wear some face protection though).
Thanks for the reply shane.
R Ant.
Thanks for the reply shane.
R Ant.
#4
Dr Terry
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Posted 14 December 2005 - 07:22 AM
Hi Guys.
On most Holdens, especially Toranas the lo-beam switches off when the hi-beam in switched on. ??They are never on together.
But on a lot of later model cars. especially Fords the lo & hi are on together in the hi-bean mode. Other than using more power it doesn't seen to cause any dramas.
Dr Terry.
On most Holdens, especially Toranas the lo-beam switches off when the hi-beam in switched on. ??They are never on together.
But on a lot of later model cars. especially Fords the lo & hi are on together in the hi-bean mode. Other than using more power it doesn't seen to cause any dramas.
Dr Terry.
#5
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 14 December 2005 - 08:21 AM
The headlight flasher on the UC will illuminate both filaments at the same time, so short term use of both filaments isnt a prob. There isnt a great deal of advantage in having the low beam illuminated along with the high beams. When you examine the setup, the filament of the low beam is simply shielded from below to stop light hitting the bottom half of the reflector so light is only directed downwards from the top half. The high beam filament is unshielded so it directs light downwards as well(illuminating the road in front of the car. It doesnt do this as well as the low beam as it is positioned more towards the focal pt of the reflector to give a more parallel beam.
Dr Terry talks of how the current fords use both filaments in the high beam position, Im not sure what power globes they have; and would not reccommend this practice in setups that are not designed for it specifically.
My experience with normal high power halogen globes in both my UC and circular H4 setups is that globes over 100W(particularly those with low beam >60W) have a very short lifespan due to the heat build up in the fitting, and that even using a lower power standard globe of 60/55W would put you this range if you used both filaments. Over the years Ive tried just about every combo of h4 globes available, and have settled on the 100/55(too much power on low beam does dazzle other cars no matter how well you aim them), they give plenty of power on high beam and I havent had to replace one in the last 10 years, consequently I have no experience with the new higher light output globes that claim to put out heaps more light even with the 60/55W setup. (they are more expensive but worth a try I believe)
Dr Terry talks of how the current fords use both filaments in the high beam position, Im not sure what power globes they have; and would not reccommend this practice in setups that are not designed for it specifically.
My experience with normal high power halogen globes in both my UC and circular H4 setups is that globes over 100W(particularly those with low beam >60W) have a very short lifespan due to the heat build up in the fitting, and that even using a lower power standard globe of 60/55W would put you this range if you used both filaments. Over the years Ive tried just about every combo of h4 globes available, and have settled on the 100/55(too much power on low beam does dazzle other cars no matter how well you aim them), they give plenty of power on high beam and I havent had to replace one in the last 10 years, consequently I have no experience with the new higher light output globes that claim to put out heaps more light even with the 60/55W setup. (they are more expensive but worth a try I believe)
#6
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Posted 14 December 2005 - 09:27 AM
Another thought, if you use the higher output 60/55W globes there should be no real need to rewire with higher gauge wire and relays etc as that is the same load as the conventional sealed beam setup for which the wiring and switch were intially designed. Given that your headlamp switch is still in good condition, its preferable to leave a circuit as simple as possible, relays although typically reliable, can fail and with all the extra connections required (4 per relay) earths, wires to batt etc, potential sources of failure multiply...
#7
_Torana482HP_
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Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:01 PM
Right on Devilsadvocate, i dont like the idea of extra crap too. But i had plans of using 55/100W H4 globes so i would probably need to have a relay for the high beam circuit and leave the low beam as is. im installing a small box in the engine bay which will have a main supply from the battery and inside ill have a relay for the highbeams, another relay for the thermo fans, another for the electric fuel pump, i think thats it from the top of my head, on the box cover ill also have the temperature dial for the electric fans thermostat. Just wanted to make sure that the two filaments on H4 globes are not made to operate at the same time.
#8
davelh
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Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:05 PM
the only problem with your theory devil is that the low high beam connections on the headlight plug on the h4 globe are actually the reverse of the standard torana wiring - so either put relays in (i did this for my H4 conversion) or cut and shut existing wiring ( do you really want to trust 30 year old wiring - i certainly dont)
cheers
dave
cheers
dave
#9
_Torana482HP_
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Posted 14 December 2005 - 04:18 PM
yeah i might just put a relay on both high beam and low beam.
#10
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Posted 14 December 2005 - 07:49 PM
Dave, what theory of mine are you referring to, it was just torana428hps idea to use one relay for the 100W high beam. I dont see a problem, if they are different, which Im totally stunned to find that out, just swap the wires around at the connector, cant that be done? Or you could swap the wires around at the connector under the bonnet. It is easy to release get a spade connector out of a plastic wiring terminal, they arent moulded in.the only problem with your theory devil is that the low high beam connections on the headlight plug on the h4 globe are actually the reverse of the standard torana wiring - so either put relays in (i did this for my H4 conversion) or cut and shut existing wiring ( do you really want to trust 30 year old wiring - i certainly dont)
cheers
dave
The certainly aren't different on a SL UC torana-h4 globes from the factory, if what you say is correct the S models fitted with sealed beams were the opposite way around?, dont know what car torana428 has.
As for 30 year old wiring, if the wiring looks okay on the outside, not perished etc, there will be nothing wrong with it, copper wires dont wear out.
Edited by devilsadvocate, 14 December 2005 - 07:54 PM.
#12
davelh
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Posted 15 December 2005 - 11:48 AM
well i dont know where you get your ideas from
1. when i did my H4 conversion on my 74 LH SL i found that the terminals for the high/low beam were reversed.
2. Have you ever stripped back old wiring and found any corrosion - water ingress is a prick of a thing and can dramatically reduce the performance of the cable, also the insulation, although it may look good, could well be #@$^%& the second you touch it, as it has been undisturbed for so long.
3. my ADVICE was to put relays in the high and low beam circuits as i found this to be the best way that will last.
cheers
dave
1. when i did my H4 conversion on my 74 LH SL i found that the terminals for the high/low beam were reversed.
2. Have you ever stripped back old wiring and found any corrosion - water ingress is a prick of a thing and can dramatically reduce the performance of the cable, also the insulation, although it may look good, could well be #@$^%& the second you touch it, as it has been undisturbed for so long.
3. my ADVICE was to put relays in the high and low beam circuits as i found this to be the best way that will last.
well, maybe you should do some more research on the matter (big difference between PU-C and LH wiring)which Im totally stunned to find that out
cheers
dave
#13
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Posted 15 December 2005 - 05:17 PM
Dave, as I said b4, which ever way the headlights are wired it doesnt take much to change the connectors around. Ive done several h4 conversions on older cars and dont remember any problems that would suggest sealed beams are different in their connections to H4. However, I took your claim at face value regarding the LH wiring and did do some research on it today.1. when i did my H4 conversion on my 74 LH SL i found that the terminals for the high/low beam were reversed.
3. my ADVICE was to put relays in the high and low beam circuits as i found this to be the best way that will last.well, maybe you should do some more research on the matter (big difference between PU-C and LH wiring)which Im totally stunned to find that out
cheers
dave
I examined a sealed beam unit and compared to it to a h4 globe, both use the same terminals for high and low beam. You are claiming that they are the opposite, or found that to be so in your own LH, all I can suggest is that you found that someone had reversed the connections previously, though you would have had the high beam indicator showing when it was on low beam? or had reversed the connections on the dipper switch?
All wiring for headlights was very standard for the period, the low beam is brown and goes to the top/middle connector, high beam is green(right side of car and earth black).
Re rewiring, no harm in that, but if it is as dangerous/dodgy as you say, why not rewire all the way back to the lightswitch as well and stay non relay. Ive only encountered problems with wires that are oil soaked or heat effected from being on the engine in older vehicles, connections-thats another matter, worth pulling them all and cleaning/replacing, especially the underbonnet harness connectors for the headlamps. Its a personal choice, but having had a number of bosch and hella relays fail suddenly and without warning, Id rather not rely on them unless its totally necessary.
Torana482hp: 100/55W is a good choice
Edited by devilsadvocate, 15 December 2005 - 05:20 PM.
#15
_lxtorrie_
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Posted 16 December 2005 - 11:36 AM
Just a quick Q about changing to halogen lights- Do you need to purchase a conversion kit, or is it possible to just change the globes?
Cheers
Cheers
#16
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Posted 16 December 2005 - 12:08 PM
You most likely have a sealed beam unit, which means the reflector and filament are one integrated unit.
In a H4 setup is two piece, globe/filament + reflector housing.
You will need the complete H4 setup/conversion.
In a H4 setup is two piece, globe/filament + reflector housing.
You will need the complete H4 setup/conversion.
#17
_lxtorrie_
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Posted 16 December 2005 - 11:04 PM
Woops, my bad, what I actually meant to ask was does the actual plug for the lights need to be changed, or can you use the standard.
However, I decided to go out and buy a new set of lights 2day, and after some shopping around I settled on 2 Hella individual light surrounds (for the halogen lights) and the 55/60 blue bulbs that was mentioned in an above post. This all ended up costing less then the pre-packaged conversion kit ($65 instead of $99) however I did not get an extra set of bulbs.
All up it took under an hour to install, but may have been a lot quicker if I had known that I cannot change from regular to highbeam without the ignition on...derr
Anyways, took the car out for a drive 2nite, and there was a massive difference with the new lights. The car feels a lot safer travelling along the highway at night.
I would reccommend it to anyone that has some spare time on their hand and a couple of bucks in their pockets.
Cheers
However, I decided to go out and buy a new set of lights 2day, and after some shopping around I settled on 2 Hella individual light surrounds (for the halogen lights) and the 55/60 blue bulbs that was mentioned in an above post. This all ended up costing less then the pre-packaged conversion kit ($65 instead of $99) however I did not get an extra set of bulbs.
All up it took under an hour to install, but may have been a lot quicker if I had known that I cannot change from regular to highbeam without the ignition on...derr
Anyways, took the car out for a drive 2nite, and there was a massive difference with the new lights. The car feels a lot safer travelling along the highway at night.
I would reccommend it to anyone that has some spare time on their hand and a couple of bucks in their pockets.
Cheers
#18
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Posted 25 December 2005 - 09:36 PM
Be carefull with your choice of H4 conversion kit.
I purchased a Hella kit then years later went to fit it only to find out it was not supplied with the parker globes and their holders that pokes through into the reflector.
I contacted Hella Australia and was re-directed to a local rep who knew all about this problem (not supplied with kit and nothing available to suit through Hella)
The local rep greatfully helped me out and supplied a completely different kit with a different parker setup.
I had to modify the headlight buckets twice.
The first incomplete kit was a 5604/100.
Cheers
I purchased a Hella kit then years later went to fit it only to find out it was not supplied with the parker globes and their holders that pokes through into the reflector.
I contacted Hella Australia and was re-directed to a local rep who knew all about this problem (not supplied with kit and nothing available to suit through Hella)
The local rep greatfully helped me out and supplied a completely different kit with a different parker setup.
I had to modify the headlight buckets twice.
The first incomplete kit was a 5604/100.
Cheers
#19
_dazzaslr308_
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Posted 11 January 2006 - 11:23 PM
guys guys guys, u want to im prove headlights on a torana with h4 lights. get a pair of narva PLUS50%60/55WATT, WITH THESE U WILL NOT NEED TO FIT A RELAY CAUSE THEY USE A DIFFERENT GAS IN THE GLOBE WHICH BURNS BRIGHTER BUT USES THE SAME AMOUNT OF CURRENT DRAW AS ASTANDARD GLOBE. i did my own little test and put 1 in a side and a 100 watter in the other and the plus 50% was brighter. Also u guys running 100 watters, do u know why ur globes dont last? there isnt enough heat dissipation in a torana size headlight for such wattage.what u r actually doing is melting the chrome of ur reflectors. yes if u use either the narva or hella h4 conversion kits u will need to cut some of the "shell" which holds the reflector in due to the parker globe placement on the hella and narva reflectors. there is no real need to run relays on toranas other then lxs which have the micro switch to turn high beam on, cause the power hasnt got to travel too far so voltage drop usually isnt much of a problem with toranas. if u do use relays do both high and low beam, make sure u use 40amp relays. hope there is some handy hints for u guys in this, give me a tingle if u need any other electrical advice, regards darrin.
#20
_keith1962_
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Posted 15 January 2006 - 07:20 PM
the reason why late fords can run this is because there is 2 separate globesHi Guys.
On most Holdens, especially Toranas the lo-beam switches off when the hi-beam in switched on. ??They are never on together.
But on a lot of later model cars. especially Fords the lo & hi are on together in the hi-bean mode. Other than using more power it doesn't seen to cause any dramas.
Dr Terry.
#21
_devilsadvocate_
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Posted 23 January 2006 - 03:14 PM
Thanks for that comparison Dazza, confirms my thoughts on the matter. The higher output(same input) globes are a lot more expensive though - what are the initial results of how long they last?guys guys guys, u want to im prove headlights on a torana with h4 lights. get a pair of narva PLUS50%60/55WATT, WITH THESE U WILL NOT NEED TO FIT A RELAY CAUSE THEY USE A DIFFERENT GAS IN THE GLOBE WHICH BURNS BRIGHTER BUT USES THE SAME AMOUNT OF CURRENT DRAW AS ASTANDARD GLOBE. i did my own little test and put 1 in a side and a 100 watter in the other and the plus 50% was brighter. Also u guys running 100 watters, do u know why ur globes dont last? there isnt enough heat dissipation in a torana size headlight for such wattage.what u r actually doing is melting the chrome of ur reflectors. yes if u use either the narva or hella h4 conversion kits u will need to cut some of the "shell" which holds the reflector in due to the parker globe placement on the hella and narva reflectors. there is no real need to run relays on toranas other then lxs which have the micro switch to turn high beam on, cause the power hasnt got to travel too far so voltage drop usually isnt much of a problem with toranas. if u do use relays do both high and low beam, make sure u use 40amp relays. hope there is some handy hints for u guys in this, give me a tingle if u need any other electrical advice, regards darrin.
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