738 replies to this topic

[claysummers]

Thanks Col. I will check that out.


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[claysummers]

There was way too much end float in the distributor shaft to simply shim, so I've pulled it apart and found thisIt apears to me that the thrust washer that sits between the top of the bush boss and underside of the counterweight carrier plate has disintegrated, leaving the two parts to chew away at each other due to the downward thrust on the shaft caused by the helical gears driving it.

The question in my mind is, can the shaft assembly be salvaged by simply replacing the thrust washer with one or better two of suitable thickness, or will it just chop out again.

A breakdown diagram would be very helpful at this point.

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Edited by claysummers, 25 April 2024 - 12:14 PM.

[claysummers]

Put the old dist back in at +5 initial and getting +40 total around 3000 and it is running great.



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[warrenm]

There should be a fibre washer & a steel shim between the dizzy housing & the carrier plate. You would have to check that there is clearance between the advance plate & the shim, so that it doesn't interfere when it advances. 

[claysummers]

There should be a fibre washer & a steel shim between the dizzy housing & the carrier plate. You would have to check that there is clearance between the advance plate & the shim, so that it doesn't interfere when it advances.

Thanks. Yes, it still clears the bottom of the posts where they recess into the plate. I will see if I can lay my hands on some correct size washers. Pity I seem to have disposed of all my old points dissys to rat from.


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[claysummers]

I'm still trying to see if I can get the 179 to run on 91. I shimmed up the VK EFI distributor and installed at +10 initial timing. No ping up the rev range, but a bit down around 1000 to 1400rpm. So I backed it off and backed it off, but still a coupe of pings at +2 on 91. It seems I may have to resign myself to using 95 and 98.

It seems to have a lot more pick up with the +10 initial, but in the meantime, I have a full tank of 91 to use up. So I've set to +5 degrees for a 350km club run tomorrow. If it plays up along the way, I will have to put some octane booster in it.

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Edited by claysummers, 17 May 2024 - 06:36 PM.

[claysummers]

I haven't seen anyone on here using one of these.It seems like a good thing, and would have been a game changer when I started hearing lifter noise prior to recent cam failure. Just pull the filter and see if there is any metal in there on the side of the road.

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[Rockoz]

Going from a bit of stale old memory from back in the late 70s.

If you had a low compression red 6 you could run quite well on the old standard fuel.

But if you had a high compression engine you had to run it on super.

Running standard with the high compression engine gave you no end of pinking problems.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[yel327]

I still reckon Clay it'll run fine on E10 or 95. Just avoid that awful 91. Some water or metho/water injection might help too but with E10 you get some of the metho benefit at Metho is almost all Ethanol anyway. Problem with E10 is it is UP to 10%, sometimes you'll get straight 91 and that is when cars run like cr@p on it. I find the Ram is fine on E10 until I get a batch with little Ethanol in it and then it pings and I have to fill up with 98 to raise the RON of the fuel in the tank.

[claysummers]

Thanks fellas. I ran 200 miles on 91 today. Even with bugger all initial advance and the short mechanical curve it was pinging below 1300, and around 3000 when pushed. Then I filled up with 98 and was able to advance timing considerably before it came back. Tomorrow I will measure with the light and back it off a degree.


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[S pack]

Thanks fellas. I ran 200 miles on 91 today. Even with bugger all initial advance and the short mechanical curve it was pinging below 1300, and around 3000 when pushed. Then I filled up with 98 and was able to advance timing considerably before it came back. Tomorrow I will measure with the light and back it off a degree.


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It should run fine on 95 if you don't want to run E10 94.
 

[claysummers]

I cut the oil filter open. Maybe 30 silver specks this time. 8)

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[Bruiser]

How much mechanical advance does your dizz actually have, Clay?
Would be interesting to know what rpm it’s finished advancing.
If that point comes too soon, slowing the curve a bit with the springs could help

[claysummers]

I can only quote the specs Byron posted earlier at this stage Bruce.


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[claysummers]

I’ve got it at 11 initial. Sometimes it pings down low, more so when warmed up possibly, like on the way home from a spurt. Maybe a bit rich down low? The dyno guy did say it was a bit rich at idle.


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[Bruiser]

Found ‘em again

 IMG_0773.png   293.39K   7 downloads

 IMG_0774.png   258.76K   6 downloads

Looking at the first red graph, it sure doesn’t seem to be reaching max too soon!!
All the advice I could gather up said a modified/customised dizzy curve leaned towards giving
the motor as much initial advance as it is happy with, advancing with as steep a curve (line) as it’s
happy with, and max advance all in by around 3000 - 3500 rpm, sometimes even earlier than that.
The Efi curve is far from that bunch of ideas
It’s also much gentler and slower than the vh carb one, so should be less likely to cause pinging
in that sense, but needs to be set at 12ish static to get the full 32ish total, so might cause pings at lower revs.
Then she’s pinging at 3000 as well - graph looks to me to be only 23 - 27 deg there, shouldn’t be too much(?)

Might need to be a bit richer around the pingy rpm
Maybe it is due to the high compression.

A big cam will fix it 🤣

Found ‘em again

 IMG_0773.png   293.39K   7 downloads

 IMG_0774.png   258.76K   6 downloads

Looking at the first red graph, it sure doesn’t seem to be reaching max too soon!!
All the advice I could gather up said a modified/customised dizzy curve leaned towards giving
the motor as much initial advance as it is happy with, advancing with as steep a curve (line) as it’s
happy with, and max advance all in by around 3000 - 3500 rpm, sometimes even earlier than that.
The Efi curve is far from that bunch of ideas
It’s also much gentler and slower than the vh carb one, so should be less likely to cause pinging
in that sense, but needs to be set at 12ish static to get the full 32ish total, so might cause pings at lower revs.
Then she’s pinging at 3000 as well - graph looks to me to be only 23 - 27 deg there, shouldn’t be too much(?)

Might need to be a bit richer around the pingy rpm
Maybe it is due to the high compression.

A big cam will fix it 🤣

In case once wasn’t enough

[claysummers]

Thanks Bruce. Fair swag of info there, which may take me a while to digest. What is obvious is that the non efi curve throws in a lot of advance earlier, but they both end up at a similar ultimate figure. I assume that is with the efi starting st 13 and the carby starting at six though. So the benefit of the efi dissy is that I can run more initial timing. Definitely seems to have more pickup with the additional initial setting.


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[Bruiser]

I agree, the higher initial is a benefit, and your motor must like it, she goes real well.
Was thinking, changing both springs from a carb hei dizz might help, but it would change the curve to the pink graph shape,
starting at 11 degrees - which would just make things worse.
I don’t know if the curve of a points dizzy would be slower again; if not you have just about the best thing possible
for the job here.
If it’s being fussier because the comp is high, knowing which side of the 4 degree tolerance window it is could be handy.
You’d reckon they could have made them a bit more consistent than that
No wonder you hear old stories about freak motors (and dogs)

[yel327]

You might have to get it properly regraphed Clay. The EFI engine had a decent camshaft (like 30/70) but only had below 9:1 compression. It also had the EFI ram tubes and extractors, plus designed for Super fuel so different again.
Might also be worth looking at an adjustable setup, not exactly cheap though. Like an ICE setup. Or one of those cheaper Chev HEI setups with adjustable timing.

[claysummers]

Yes, there are a few different paths available, thanks Byron and Bruce. But I am wondering if the 0.070” squish height may be the cause of the low end ping. It was mentioned earlier this should be more like 0.050”.

I am setting out on a big drive next Friday. Willunga, Port Lincoln, Esperance, Bunbury, Albany, Augusta, Perth. Near enough 4000km all up. I’m carrying the other dissy and coil as spares.


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[yel327]

It could also be vacuum advance coming on too strong too early? Have a read here, this is teh adjustable vacuum advance canister for the HEI dizzys.

 

https://static.summi.../sum-850032.pdf

 

Those HEI for red 6 dizzys are cheap as, might be worth trying one as they are easy to adjust both the vacuum advance (as per above) or change the mechanical weight springs. Probably not a long term thing for the price, but if it works long enough to figure out the curve you need not a bad investment.

 

https://www.ebay.com...1BoCjk8QAvD_BwE

[Bruiser]

I was thinking the vac advance might have a part in this, as well.
First, you could disconnect it and block up the carb outlet and see if problem goes away

Heard of the idea that these little aquarium taps in the vacuum line
have an effect
Can’t quite get my head around it, myself.
Would closing it up a bit slow the rate of vac advance?

 IMG_0775.jpeg   159.72K   3 downloads

[yel327]

Where is it pulling vacuum from? Manuals don't normally want manifold vacuum for the vacuum advance, might be part of the pinging problem at off-idle. Ideally you want zero vacuum advance at idle and just off idle on a manual, autos need it to increase the idle speed to overcome the converter. But on those carbs it might be hard to get ported vacuum.

[claysummers]

It is ported vacuum, not manifold. Not sure where it ports from exactly but assumed before the butterfly.

You’re right about the price on those things. Wonder how they last.


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[yel327]

It has to be above the throttles if its ported. It might be worth trying what Bruce suggested, even disconnecting the vacuum for a run as he says.