22 replies to this topic

[shags]

who has used an after market fuel injection system like holley sniper efi and the likes.

looking for options away from the old holden 5ltr bunch of bananas .

 

i like the carby look.

 

[yel327]

I have bought a Sniper and a Hyperspark for the 377 going into the HK, but haven’t actually used it yet. I’ve fitted a VZ MRA (dead head type) into the HK fuel tank and was starting to bend up new 3/8” fuel line but life/COVID/other stuff has delayed me for a while.
I bought a gold Sniper Quadrajet as I like the Quadrajet sound plus a Corvette drop base factory replica air cleaner will fit it. I bought most of it when EBay was having 15% or 20% off days of local sellers like Rolan, Outlaw etc.
The whole hog is:
Sniper kit
Hyperspark dizzy
Hyperspark coil
Coil firing module.

It is all plug and play and looks really easy to setup. The hardest work appears to be getting the fuel tank and pump right. If you go to the Sniper page on the Holley website you can download the fitting and commissioning documents, and it shows you how the whole lot works and connects together. It also shows you it can work with an MSD distributor or a HEI just not as tuneable. The little LCD screen that comes with it allows you to set up a base tune and then dyno it giving you full fuel and spark maps. There are also forums where you can ask questions of both Holley people and other users. I’m also going to use my Sniper to control the lockup converter on my TH350C.
Going to set it all up initially on a 283, get the whole car functioning including the A/C and then replace the engine with the 377.

[LJ RB30]

I bought the EZ-EFI master kit years ago (they look abit different now) & fitted it to the 253 in my HJ.

The self learning was a big seller for me.

Took me a while to fit it as work kept me busy.

Powered up & run through basic settings,ci, No of cyl, idle speed & some afr settings from memory then hit the key & it fired up straight away!

I was wrapped!    

Even with the huge throttlebody (1000cc) it ran perfectly, accelerated smoothly under all conditions.

About the only frustration i had was the slow responding hand controller.

I didn't get to use it much over the next 12-18 months.

I tidied up some bits then drove it more.

While out driving i decided to clear it & start the learning again as i was planning on driving it more.

When i got home & was sitting in the shed idling & i was scrolling through the (f#%king slow) hand controller looking at settings & accidentally went into calibration mode (whats normally done before initial start up) & there was no backing out.

I got to the throttle calibration section & wasn't going to do WOT so i turned the ignition off.

It never ran properly again.

It only ever tried to start with throttle full ,anything under that it did nothing.

Inputs on the controller from intake air temp & coolant temp were now showing 255. These are not able to be altered/calibrated from any operator inputs!

I googled it & found another aussie had the same issue & had sorted it with the manufacturer but wouldn't say how. 

This to me definitely seem to be a manufactures programming glitch.

I had the setup for over 2 years but only done 50klms with it.

I contacted the manufacturer & they wanted me to send the computor back to be reflashed at my cost of $666US not including postage!!

I said that (at the time) it was going to cost me $950AU without postage when i payed $2400AU for the whole kit!

They weren't very helpful so in frustration i rebuilt  the quadrajet & went back to that.

They may have fixed the issue but i certainly wouldn't recommend them.

Rant over

[76lxhatch]

Throwing away the port injection for a basic throttle body injection system seems like a bit of a backwards step... why not just change the manifold and use a four barrel throttle body?

 

 

[LJ RB30]

Throwing away the port injection for a basic throttle body injection system seems like a bit of a backwards step... why not just change the manifold and use a four barrel throttle body?

 

Certainly agree it would be a backward step if already had port injection.

[Bigfella237]

 ~ i like the carby look.

It will cost you a little extra but if you really like the carby look then you can't get much better than a Holley Terminator Stealth EFI setup...

 

 

https://www.holley.c...inator_stealth/

[shags]

cool thanks for the info.

 

im starting from scratch on my old hz ute has a 5ltr th400 carby fed.

 

i have a whole vt calais but its more hassle ans cash to get all that fitted and tuned than buying a self tuning system.

 

the stealth would be nice but might but im gunna budget a bit lower recon the sniper kit will be the go.

[axistr]

I have had a Holley HP system on my hatch SBC 383 for around four years now. Runs so much better than the 780 Holley carby ever did. Easy setup, configured it in a few minutes on my laptop, self tuned in a quick 20 minute drive. Only made a few  minor changes to suit my driving style. Used a standard HEI distributor. Engine is around 500 HP. I can lean in through the window, turn the key and starts up perfect hot or cold and will idle all day. There are heaps of extra things the computer can control, fans, AC, transmissions (auto) mine is a manual, nitrous and the list is very long. I can drive the car and do a full logging or just monitor all the parameters on the screen in real time on many different user custom screens. Highly recommend the Holley HP MPFI system. 

 

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[yel327]

^^I would one day like to tinker with like above, maybe when I get the time to build a BBC up. For the current HK the Sniper will be a good start, and you are right they are relatively cheap. You can buy a base kit in a squarebore for about $1700, if you wait for an EBay 10-15% off day even better. The Quadrajet one will take a standard air cleaner but with the squarebore you have to modify it or use aftermarket. Holley sells an A/C base that fits.
I chose to dead head mine so running without a return line. The squarebore Sniper has an inbuilt regulator, my spreadbore one doesn’t so I have to run a regulated MRA. I’d recommend you do the same, pull your tank out and get an MRA ring added. Use whichever MRA suits the tank depth. The common ones are VT-VY for tall tanks, BA-FG for medium height and VE for shallow tanks.
If you are running less than 350-400hp it looks like the standard 5/16” fuel line will do but upgrade to 3/8” if you go more just to be safe.

[Nugget]

Of all the fuel injection options for a stroked 308 (386), which one would provide the best fuel economy if doing a trip from Perth to Canberra; unladen an return with largish caravan. I currently use a 3310 750. Not economical anytime really. as in my profile pic

[shags]

is there a kit that uses the holden bunch of bananas manifold , injector set up , but not holden electrics ?

[76lxhatch]

Anything that supports a return-style high pressure system will work with the factory fuel rail setup. As a sweeping generalisation fuel systems are either return or returnless (which is still return but at the pump or somewhere before the fuel rail), high or low impedance injectors, and you need to match the fuel pressure. Beyond that you can mostly use any control system with any fuel system.

 

Not sure why you wouldn't use the factory Holden electrics as its cheap, all GM-standard sensors etc which every other aftermarket system uses too. Biggest hassle is the ignition modules are a bit hit and miss after all these years, but you can change that by using a different module with a magnetic pickup dizzy.

[Lima31]

is there a kit that uses the holden bunch of bananas manifold , injector set up , but not holden electrics ?

 

Haltech maybe?

[Bigfella237]

I'd say most of the aftermarket EFI manufacturers would be able to supply the appropriate harnesses, you just need to specify the correct connectors to suit your injectors / coils / sensors / etc., it's all fairly standard stuff.

 

But I would be comparing and choosing the ECU first...

 

Figure out what you need it to do (self-learning, electronic trans control, boost control, traction control, CANbus accessories, etc.) and, of course, choose something within your budget... And if you have a tuner in mind, talk to them and consider a system that he/she is familiar with and recommends.

 

...Then look at wiring harnesses!

Edited by Bigfella237, 29 August 2021 - 11:09 AM.

[Oversteer]

Link or haltech would be the choice if you want to go aftermarket....

 

However the factory ecu is a really really good choice for that motor... the 5.0 injected holden engine is not even an sequential injection motor...it batch fires injectors which is pretty ugly given end of life of  99, the factory delco ecu has a very sophisticated fuel modeling software that made this work very well, it excels at it, something the aftermarket ecu will not without a LOT or tuning...more than what you want to pay for! Most would say screw that batch fire shit and sequential the motor, which would yield better results but would require modifications and extra custom parts to achieve.

Combine the above with the factory stepper motor idle control(again Delco ecu has a lot of development in...aftermarket not as good) and the Delco wins hands down.

 

If its a stock or near too it engine you just want to cruise there's even more reason for Delco and its cheap, want to double its power and FI well then its a different ball game go aftermarket.

 

TLDR Use factory ECU it will be buttery smooth and run perfect, aftermarket will not with-out substantial tuning and modification... and even then likely won't drive as nice as factory.

Edited by Oversteer, 29 August 2021 - 05:25 PM.

[76lxhatch]

VT and VSIII had sequential injection (and also ran a MAF) on the Holden V8 but not a huge gain

[rodomo]

VT and VSIII had sequential injection (and also ran a MAF) on the Holden V8 but not a huge gain

Had more to do with smoother idle from memory

[axistr]

The main reason manufactures went to sequential injection was for reducing emissions. The performance is the same between batch & sequential injection.

 

Link or haltech would be the choice if you want to go aftermarket....

 

However the factory ecu is a really really good choice for that motor... the 5.0 injected holden engine is not even an sequential injection motor...it batch fires injectors which is pretty ugly given end of life of  99, the factory delco ecu has a very sophisticated fuel modeling software that made this work very well, it excels at it, something the aftermarket ecu will not without a LOT or tuning...more than what you want to pay for! Most would say screw that batch fire shit and sequential the motor, which would yield better results but would require modifications and extra custom parts to achieve.

Combine the above with the factory stepper motor idle control(again Delco ecu has a lot of development in...aftermarket not as good) and the Delco wins hands down.

 

If its a stock or near too it engine you just want to cruise there's even more reason for Delco and its cheap, want to double its power and FI well then its a different ball game go aftermarket.

 

TLDR Use factory ECU it will be buttery smooth and run perfect, aftermarket will not with-out substantial tuning and modification... and even then likely won't drive as nice as factory.

 

I agree with you with the early primitive aftermarket kits. I have a Delco ECU running the 5lt VR engine in my SLR, and Holley HP system driving my 383 SBC engine in the hatch. I have the option of standard, batch and sequential injection with the Holley HP system. It has every option that the Delco ECU has plus much more. Its self tuning, has fly by wire option, traction control, knock sensors, transmission control, water injection control, A/C bump up and cut out, electric fan control, boost control, individual cylinder injection and timing control, road speed sensing. Also has four input and output programable control options which can switch to neg or positive and pulse width inputs. What more do you need ?.  It has far more tuning features than the Delco ECU Holden used. The Holley tuning program is very easy to use and understand. After the self tuning did its thing the only parameter I changed was the idle speed and ignition timing between 1,300 -1,500 RPM. I was a bit slack and didn't hook up the knock sensor, so knocked the timing back 1 degree in this area. It doesn't matter if its hot, cold, raining, low or high pressure day the engine starts first kick every time and idles at 800 RPM perfectly. For a 500hp engine with 234 duration cam, open plane manifold and 10.6-1 compression I'm impressed. 

 

The Delco system in the SLR is good but its only controlling a stock 5lt club sport engine. It cost me $500 just to get the vats and a couple of other parameters changed. Not many do the programing on the Delco system these days and it costs heaps to get them to dyno and set the ECM up. Compared to the Holley system in the hatch the Delco is primitive but was good back in the mid nineties. When my son askes to borrow the hatch I quickly get the laptop out and drop a power reduced tune in that I configured. He can only rev it to 4,800 RPM rather than 6,200 He isn't impressed but that's one of the car loan requirements agreed on. I just don't want him to kill himself or my car.   

[Bigfella237]

Kinda sucks that you didn't spring for the Dominator ECU, Lenny. It has a "Multi-Map Selector Switch" (558-407) accessory that allows you to insert the key and switch between up to four Global Folders (aka 'tunes') stored within the ECU.

 

You can have one tune for performance, one for economy, a "limp home" mode, and maybe a "valet" mode (good for kids who want to borrow dad's toy).

[axistr]

Kinda sucks that you didn't spring for the Dominator ECU, Lenny. It has a "Multi-Map Selector Switch" (558-407) accessory that allows you to insert the key and switch between up to four Global Folders (aka 'tunes') stored within the ECU.

 

You can have one tune for performance, one for economy, a "limp home" mode, and maybe a "valet" mode (good for kids who want to borrow dad's toy).

 

Cool, that's a good idea.  I don't think they were available when I purchased my system. My system is now over four years old and at the time the dominator ECU just arrived on the market. It was almost double the cost of the HP system. It was hard enough to get the Mrs to part with the money at the time. She purchased the kit as an anniversary present. How cool was that. Ha Ha. 

 

It only takes me a couple of minutes to change the tune and thankfully he only askes to take the car out once or twice a year, so happy with what I have. 

[76lxhatch]

Not many do the programing on the Delco system these days and it costs heaps to get them to dyno and set the ECM up.

This is probably the most important factor if you're not going DIY. If you are then there are many options including the Holley offerings and the Delco (which has been one of the cheapest for DIY although second hand parts have gone up recently). But if you're doing to pay someone else to work with it then you need to find that someone else you trust and can afford first, and let them use what they want to use.

[neglectedtorana]

I don't know anything about swapping to an EFI system from carby but think the Holley stuff looks great, some info in this link below. It is an ad from Holley but that carby style throttle body looks great!

 

https://www.holley.c...source=hs_email

[myss427]

For street cars Holley is the best of the bunch.