14 replies to this topic

[hawk]

Hi Guys,

Recently took my UC for its first proper drive and something doesn't feel right in the front end.
Only way I can describe it is its like a flogged out rag coupling.

The steering feedback is really boating in the corners with the feedback through the steering wheel not transferring properly.

It felt this way when I bough the car too.

Everything has been replaced or rebuilt including the rack and I have don't the double knuckle conversion.

Am I correct in assuming its a steering rack issue?
Surely the column wouldn't be able to cause a feeling like that.

The only other thing is that the front sway bar isn't fitted as the extractors don't clear it. But again, I don't see how that could cause the steering to feel like that.

Any ideas or advice?

[claysummers]

No front sway bar will make a car virtually undriveable in my experience


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[Heath]

As I said in that message, park it up with a tyre against a curb and see what happens when the steering wheel is played with. I think rodomo taught me that trick.

 

Look for any free play as someone wiggles the steering wheel, obviously look for any noises. Any movement in the knuckles on the column, etc.

[UCgazman]

No front sway bar will make a car virtually undriveable in my experience


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You can drive without one, but it'll handle like a boat...

[LXCHEV]

I'll go against the grain here and disagree that a lack of a front sway bar leads to terrible handling. Pulled the front sway bar off my car about 20 years ago (due to extractor clearance issues when I converted from red 6 to SBC V8) - with the plan to replace it with an alternate design one day - but never got around to it due to the fact that the car drives mint. I've done skidpan days, burnout comps, drag days, endless street km's, lots of trips around the twisty stuff etc - and zero complaints. If I was racing at high speed, then no doubt a sway bar would likely take the handling to a new level. Perhaps it's my chassis kit, or the way the front end is setup (essentially A9X spec, old skool) - but it seriously drives beautifully. Sharp, firm and crisp.

 

I think to help troubleshoot your current issue - you definitely need 2 people. Someone behind the wheel doing the 'wiggling', whilst the other person is closely monitoring at the pointy end.

 

Do the UCs come with a different ratio rack from memory? That might also result in a less direct feel. But go through your house-keeping items first and make sure nothing is loose and that everything is behaving as it should.

[rodomo]

Left rack bush.

[hawk]

Thanks guys I'll give it a going over on the weekend.

Rodomo, Its a rebuilt rack with new left rack bush and bearings.
New tie rod ends, bushes, ball joints.
Double knuckle conversion.
gut feeling says its still a rack issue.

[Heath]

I'll go against the grain here and disagree that a lack of a front sway bar leads to terrible handling.

Agreed. No problem without a front swaybar. Certainly doesn't make the steering vague. Just makes the dynamics of the car slower and makes it roll around.

But Steve's car - like your car Brett - will have lowered springs and stuff which are stiffer than original, anyway. Probably the same with stiff springs and no bar as with standard springs at standard height with a front bar.

Do the UCs come with a different ratio rack from memory? That might also result in a less direct feel. But go through your house-keeping items first and make sure nothing is loose and that everything is behaving as it should.

They are a slower ratio, but the difference is only small.

If it feels shit like Steve describes, I think there's something wrong with the car.

But in the case of a Torana, there aren't that many failure points. If the steering column is doing its thing properly... you've got the two knuckles, the rack, the rack ends, the tie-rod ends...
Tyre pressures good?
Definitely got positive castor?

[claysummers]

Yer I don’t know why they ever fitted sway bars. Let’s all take them off. Couldn’t possibly be the lack of a sway bar causing the issue. Just makes an otherwise standard suspension handle like a boat, which is how the OP describes his cars handling. Elephant in the room FFS.


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[hawk]

I went over the car earlier and from what I can tell the rack ends have play.

The aftermarket rack ends I have the rack rebuilt with were wrong so I put standard ones back in. they came off a pretty rough steering rack. I'll probably jist replace the rack all together.

[mick_in_oz]

Personally, those rack ends would have to be pretty bad to show up as awful steering as you describe.

Curious to know if you have the actual wheel alignment specs for it?

[ozyozyozy]

Need to take it to someone who knows what they are looking at, show them what its doing, your concerns.
Currently it seems like a guessing game based on vague info.
Front suspension is made up of alot of components and they all must work together and be aligned correctly for it to do its job.
Eg, a good wheel aligner will disregard what the programmed specs say in the machine, will set it up for how you drive.

Yes sway bars do have a good affect, been on a skid pan/burnout comps will not show you what a front bar can do.
Using front runners or skinny front tyres will not generate enough grip to also tell.
Food for thought pretty much every race car uses them, so must be something in that.

[hawk]

wheel alignment was set up as follows.

I asked for the maximum positive castor they could get. As the car has been crashed numerous times ( bent rails, cut and shut) one side was a lot worse than the other. Got about 2.5 degrees positive castor on each side. it was the most possible while keeping the castor even on each side without using a crazy amount of shims.

The camber is set to 1.5 degrees.

tyres are 195/65/14 on the front and 225/60/14 on the rear.

Toe, I can remember.
I live in the Dandenong Ranges and have a lot of winding roads that I love to push my cars through.


I am confident it's the rack ends as from steering wheel to the rack there is no play at all. The new tie rod ends have no play.

while Lightly moving the steering wheel without moving the wheels I can feel no movement at the time rod end but can feel a knocking in the rack that would be consistent with the rack ends having play.

[Heath]

Those alignment settings are what I would have done.

I'd be looking at those rack ends and seeing what it does.

Then I'd put a swaybar on once you fix the problem, which you're already planning on doing.

[Statler]

Grab the LHS rack end & see if there is any movement. I.e where the rubber boot is.

Grab the steering column lower & check for play at the lower column bearing. 

 

While you are there, measure the wheel centers left to right. The accident damage may have put the car out of square.