38 replies to this topic

[LCK186]

Shiney Hi, yes you are correct, it is easy to to get a blank and forge all the documentation, and as you have said this will be forgery,  but Holden i think were a little bit smarter, in the Torana owners guide, they also had the similar certificate printed on the book cover with the similar details, eg name,  engine, chassis, vin number, etc, which can not be printed. if it has been white out then alarm bells will ring

[Rockoz]

Something to ponder.

Some of the most expensive examples of each special model were the race cars.

Lots of them had catastrophic engine failures in the day.

Would the teams have sourced a correct number block for a rebuild?

Or would they have just sourced another engine for rebuild from a wrecking yard?

Would they have had original engines fitted with original engine numbers 30 to 40 years on?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[Statler]

I wonder why GMH didn't match driveline / chassis #'s like their 'Merican counterparts?

 

I can imagine a handful of whitecoats in a boardroom discussing the issue. 

 

"We have to match the driveline component numbers"

 

"Why, who is going to give a shit about our Southern hemisphere stuff anyway?"

 

"It's nearly lunch time, let's go to the pub." 

[gtrboyy]

If car is heavily modified shouldn't really matter but if it's reasonable close to original but missing engine block period correct prefix is nice to see BUT not a deal breaker.

 

However if car is top tier hero status in as close to factory original as possible then 100% you want original engine number or a replacement block prefix if possible if expecting buyers to pay big coin.

[LCK186]

Statier and Gtrboyy hi,  i agree with  both of you guys 1OO percent,  

[Shiney005]

Would they have had original engines fitted with original engine numbers 30 to 40 years on?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

I would say nearly none of the A9X race cars would still have the HT block. Certainly none were raced with them back in the day.

[Heath]

Showing my age here, but "back in the day" changeover/ exchange engines , call them what you will were available absolutely everywhere. Promoted on the basis of drop car in on the morning, we run you to work/ station, come back about 5 PM and ready to go. 50 years on I reckon it is drawing a long bow to expect an original block in the engine bay. Remember these cars were disposable like everything else, no one could have foreseen the number of anal retentive s getting their knickers twisted over stamped numbers like this.

Yeah, but that's kind of the point isn't it?

They don't want a car that has had 50 owners and been to the change-over engine joint 10 times, had the rear half of the car replaced twice and been painted lots of colours they knew nothing about until they stripped the paint back.

If every car still had a matching engine, nobody would care about it. People who care about these matters (I am not one of them) consciously seek vehicles which have been stuffed around with less, because they believe that is significant and special, and that those vehicles - being of course much rarer - are superior as a consequence. The fact it's "a long bow" only fuels the fire more, I think.

I actually do see the value in knowing a car's history. If you can own a car that you know the story of... you know the old owners, you have the photos of it in the 80's and 90's and you know what modifications were done at different times and trips across the Nullarbor with the family, etc. that is magnificent! I understand the appeal of that a lot actually... It gives me a warm feeling. But replacing a motor with one with a similar prefix to an original one that you KNOW is not correct, is not something I value. To me, it seems contrived.

[Rockoz]

I would say nearly none of the A9X race cars would still have the HT block. Certainly none were raced with them back in the day.

 

When I was at Griceys workshop there was an engine out of one of the cars sitting outside.

And sitting outside of the engine was a big end.

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[tuxedoss]

I reckon Heath is spot on . Particularly the bit about if it’s not the original engine and you know it’s not then there is no value in that .

[S pack]

I would say nearly none of the A9X race cars would still have the HT block. Certainly none were raced with them back in the day.

Looking at some A9X Production broadcast sheets the GMP&A race shells didn't come with an engine in the bay anyway.
 

[IanC]

I have a February 72 XU1.  The original motor is gone. But it has a JP motor from September 72 (Bathurst Car)  When I bought it, the only things I knew to look for,  were the fuel line in the boot and the JP block.  I wish it still had the original motor in it.. But it doesn't.  But for me, I feel the next best thing is another genuine XU1JP block. And a Bathurst 200 JP engine is a little bonus.  But not as good as the original motor.   I am sure I would love my car with a 308 in it.  or a 3 ltr turbo.  Maybe even a Tesla pack.  Great little cars. Motors could be optional.  But I am glad mine is somewhat close to the original, even if others don't.   

[kiwi-lilj]

If my S model didn’t have it’s original 138 under the bonnet I would probably just cut it up and part it out.

[Ice]

If my S model didn’t have it’s original 138 under the bonnet I would probably just cut it up and part it out.

Prob worth more like that 

[caterham2]

Yeah, but that's kind of the point isn't it?

They don't want a car that has had 50 owners and been to the change-over engine joint 10 times, had the rear half of the car replaced twice and been painted lots of colours they knew nothing about until they stripped the paint back.

If every car still had a matching engine, nobody would care about it. People who care about these matters (I am not one of them) consciously seek vehicles which have been stuffed around with less, because they believe that is significant and special, and that those vehicles - being of course much rarer - are superior as a consequence. The fact it's "a long bow" only fuels the fire more, I think.

I actually do see the value in knowing a car's history. If you can own a car that you know the story of... you know the old owners, you have the photos of it in the 80's and 90's and you know what modifications were done at different times and trips across the Nullarbor with the family, etc. that is magnificent! I understand the appeal of that a lot actually... It gives me a warm feeling. But replacing a motor with one with a similar prefix to an original one that you KNOW is not correct, is not something I value. To me, it seems contrived.

There is a white LJ XU1 going into Burns and Co next auction which is a well documented car without a JP number. It has a Nasco warranty block engine in it.