33 replies to this topic

[OBEY]

Hey guys, Just bought a new starter motor for my 1994 304 holden V8 but it fouls the flexplate.

 

starter is a Proflow Starter Motor PowerTorque Mini - https://www.proflow....lden-v8-253-308

 

 

According to their installation manual: should be 1/8 (3.1mm) from ring gear to the front of starter pinion but on my setup it is engaged with the flexplate by a few mm

 

 

The original one has far more clearance from the flexplate. Can't find anything solid that their is a difference between 304 and 308 starter motors

[yel327]

As far as I am aware a 304 in a VK or VL used the same starter as a VC-VK 308. I have heard people say that there is some minor difference between red and blue 308 starters but never figured out what. I don't recall any difference between the full-size starter on VN 304 to VL 304. I know a VP 304 bolted straight into my HZ Overlander using the 4L60 flex plate to the TH400 in there already using the HZ's starter motor.

 

Looking at your photos the drive gear isn't sitting back into the starter like it is meant to. It should spring back into the starter housing when it is disengaged. Yours is right out at the end of its travel, might be a dud starter? The one in the VPW images looks the same though.

Edited by yel327, 01 March 2023 - 04:03 PM.

[claysummers]

I had this issue when fitting a new reduction gear starter to blue six . Added a 2mm aluminium spacer.


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[76lxhatch]

There are various different factory starters for external clearance but they all fit to the block and ring gear the same. Aftermarket often fit poorly (a lot of them are just Chevy small block with minor tweaks) and shimming is expected, not a problem once done right.

[Statler]

Is there something wrong with the stock 304 Bosche starter?

 

Aren't they available anymore or something ? 

 

Why are so many people buying aftermarket (inferior) items? Is it price or availability ? 

[rexy]

The Bosch late model starter is NLA sadly so you are stuck finding someone to rebuild your factory starter or taking your chances with an aftermarket piece of poo.

 

You should never need to modify a starter for front/back clearance. Thats just lazy manufacturing.

 

Once you start using non factory flex plates, flywheels or starter motors you are likely going to need to check and shim pinion to ring gear clearance.

 

You also need to look carefully at the bolts you are using. Most of the supplied bolts aren’t a tight fit in the starter mounting holes and allow significant flex when cranking.

[Shiney005]

How do you shim it when the bolts are vertical and the shaft is horizontal?

[76lxhatch]

In this case between the motor and mounting block. More commonly just the distance from the engine block needs to be adjusted.

[73SUNBURSTEXYOUWON]

Could there be a difference between Auto or Manual applications. I know there was on my subaru.

[Dr Terry]

Could there be a difference between Auto or Manual applications. I know there was on my subaru.

No, not with Holden V8s, A/T & M/T same.

 

That starter simply does not suit that engine, the pinion gear protrudes too far.

 

Dr Terry

[dattoman]

Your aftermarket unit has the incorrect clearance at rest

Red/blue/black/efi should all be the same (between 3-5mm) at rest

[OBEY]

Your aftermarket unit has the incorrect clearance at rest

Red/blue/black/efi should all be the same (between 3-5mm) at rest

 

Whats weird is that they sell hundreds of these units and I seem to be the only one complaining. 

Unless my flex plate is different I can't figure it out so I will make a new adapter for it.

[Dr Terry]

Unless my flex plate is different I can't figure it out so I will make a new adapter for it.

You can see that the pinion gear teeth protruding too far when compared to the bolt hole mount. This is the alignment that matters.

 

Dr Terry

[SmacT]

Unfortunately I only just spotted this thread, and had already bought one of these bastard things. It needs a 5mm spacer for the pinion gear (between start mounting block and starter motor), and Proflow sells a spacer kit - but doesn't say what size it is. 🙄 I have a Bosch, but they don't fit the TKX gearbox.

I will be ringing the seller tomorrow, after wasting an hour on it this weekend, to see what spacers they have, but curious to know how you went Obey?

They are cheap, so I spose I deserved that for being a tight arse. Any other suggestions welcome (needs to be a high torque to fit the TKX bellhousing).

[Heath]

My build thread covers my own battles with starters to suit big flywheels to suit the 11" clutch, including my current solution which seems to be working perfectly at the moment.

The typical indexable reduction starter (with an offset motor) eg. CVR/CAE/Mal Wood/Aeroflow starter packaging will not fit between the K-frame leg, extractors, and a large sump, in many LH-UC Toranas, but that is of course a different matter.

The genuine Bosch ones are NLA, but you can buy the China replicas readily.
 

The spacer that needs to be made/sourced to fix this is something that fits axially between the starter motor adapting block and the starter motor working assembly, as SmacT has suggested.
Why on earth should this be necessary?

Has the pinion engaging movement been assembled incorrectly to make the rest point too far out? Is this a factory fault?

 

I have been so disappointed with Aeroflow starter motor products. I had two in a row that had different sounding drive problems and the pinion spring-back didn't work properly on either of them. They were the X-Pro style, so different to what is in this thread.

[LXCHEV]

The aussiev8 boys put me onto Baxters starters. Local mob here in Vic. Their products look the goods. I purchased one of their starters for my VR's 304, but yet to crank it over.

 

Knurled bolts are also an important thing here too.

 

Just for interests sake:

https://www.aussiev8...ment-Bolts-Info

[SmacT]

Thanks guys - just got off the phone to the supplier and no, it doesn't effin' fit. So I am returning it which leaves me without a starter. 

 

I need one as yours Heath - 11in flywheel, ASR 6.5lt sump, CAE headers, Tuffmounts, Mal Wood TKX bellhousing (won't take Bosch type starters). I will try Baxters, thanks Brett, and dig through your build thread Heath to see what you did for yours. Wish I could have that hour I wasted in the shed with this POS back. Ha ha.

Edited by SmacT, 22 May 2023 - 12:45 PM.

[SmacT]

Heath's efforts are here for anyone following, down the bottom.

http://www.gmh-toran...s-hatch/page-70

[76lxhatch]

The spacer that needs to be made/sourced to fix this is something that fits axially between the starter motor adapting block and the starter motor working assembly, as SmacT has suggested.
Why on earth should this be necessary?
Has the pinion engaging movement been assembled incorrectly to make the rest point too far out? Is this a factory fault?

I'm not a Chevy guy but my guess is that small blocks are slightly different to Holden V8s and these are just universal-fit items. Would be interesting to compare.

[Heath]

^ Not sure. Don't have an SBC to test.
 

Heath's efforts are here for anyone following, down the bottom.

http://www.gmh-toran...s-hatch/page-70

Actually, the final resolution was later in the thread, here:

https://www.gmh-tora...atch/?p=1092961

[SmacT]

Ah cool - though that starter won't fit my bellhousing. I'll have to try the Aeroflow. Unless there's another option. Man. There goes another few weeks of stuffing around. Ha ha.

[yel327]

I'm not a Chevy guy but my guess is that small blocks are slightly different to Holden V8s and these are just universal-fit items. Would be interesting to compare.

 

There are two totally different starters for SBC. 153 or 168 teeth ring gear. The snouts of the starters are different and the blocks are drilled differently to accommodate the bolt pattern. Rather than try and explain it and add photos, they are all here:

Small Block and Big Block Chevy Engine Flexplate Guide (speedwaymotors.com)

 

In short a 168 tooth starter would be useless for a 253/308, these suit the 11" clutch

Edited by yel327, 23 May 2023 - 06:47 AM.

[Shiney005]

As far as I am aware a 304 in a VK or VL used the same starter as a VC-VK 308

 

For those not running the TKX, the chinese Bosch copy does come in two guises. Short and long bolt for VC-VR, and two long bolts for VS-VT. Both look otherwise the same as the Bosch BXH136.

 

 VT 1.png   571.74K   3 downloads

 

 VT 2.png   123.91K   3 downloads

 

 VC 1.png   302.63K   2 downloads

[76lxhatch]

There are two totally different starters for SBC. 153 or 168 teeth ring gear. The snouts of the starters are different and the blocks are drilled differently to accommodate the bolt pattern. Rather than try and explain it and add photos, they are all here:

Small Block and Big Block Chevy Engine Flexplate Guide (speedwaymotors.com)

 

In short a 168 tooth starter would be useless for a 253/308, these suit the 11" clutch

Sure but the aftermarket ones that are mounted on an alloy block with no pinion support are a little different. I reckon 99% of those simply have a new alloy block swapped on without much thought to position.

[claysummers]

Early is twice the price. I suppose that is due to volume sold.


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