21 replies to this topic

[yel327]

Geez, you'd think Supercars would have known about this before all the development $ spent. Means they will have another likeness of a car running that you can't buy anymore. Falcon, Commodore now Camaro!

 

Supercars twist as iconic car axed (msn.com)

 

GM to stop making Chevy Camaro, leaving muscle car's future uncertain | CNN Business

 

Supercars might have to switch to full scale Scalextric racing with EV's!

[RallyRed]

Wouldn't be as big news if the Gen 3 had rolled out when it was first planned, they would have got 4 or 5 ? years out of them then.
I think S/C has said they will run them for a few more years regardless.
I hear GM is birthing a Camaro SUV ( I think)....it could be Supercars,Stadium Trucks and V8 Ute/SUV Series all in one...its a dud idea....so in that case...stand by for an announcement.

Edited by RallyRed, 24 March 2023 - 02:33 PM.

[dattoman]

Just wait for the electric Camaro

[IanC]

My guess small cubic inch Hydrogen V8 Turbo.. we can always check back here in a few years. But I think, Electric just ain't gonna cut it.

[Uncle Chop Chop]

Hydrogen isn't as good as the government makes out. Energy wise, LPG has 70% of the value of ULP. Hydrogen has even less at 22%.

[yel327]

Hydrogen isn't as efficient as the Carbon based fuels but it and its derivate fuels (such as Ammonia) don't have the CO2 byproduct of combustion. That is why Hydrogen is being pushed as an alternative for Natural Gas in power generation and heat/re-heat applications (like kilns and rolling mills) and Coal/Coke in Steelmaking. What will eventually happen is we are going to have so much solar and wind generation that there is too much for the load, so what happens then is that excess power is used to charge batteries on small scale like these "mega" batteries the Press like to tout about and larger scale (hydro - pumping water from a lower dam to a higher dam is a battery). But also that excess power will be used to create Hydrogen and Ammonia. Sure the efficiency isn't that high, but with lots of cheap energy and no CO2 emitted it doesn't matter.

 

However, Hydrogen powering race cars - Hmm. Not in pure H2 form. As a Metal hydride - maybe? Once we solve the tiny scale battery (as in vehicle) design issues then nothing but electric drive will make sense. Electric vehicles have been around as long as internal combustion vehicles, but back in the early 20th century the same problem existed as does now - battery technology is way behind the electric motor technology. A DC motor is one of the simplest, predictable and most controllable electrical devices ever made, giving beautiful power and torque outputs. Always let down by the battery that supplies it.

Edited by yel327, 25 March 2023 - 04:09 PM.

[4dabush]

Yel,  world wide we are already burying half a billion tonnes of dead lithium batteries per annum.  Is battery waste going to be the new CO2/nuclear problem of the future? What happens when that all starts leeching into groundwater or in poorer countries where they just dump it in the ocean? Company in Canada called Carbon Engineering is making a pelletised  fuel out of direct carbon air capture that can be turned into a fuel for petrol, diesel, aviation.  Again, very power hungry to do, but as you said, more cheap power might make it scaleable and viable. 

[yel327]

I agree, the current battery technology is a stop-gap measure. Something better has to come before EV's are the norm. If you currently drive a 10 year old car it essentially has carbon captured into it. The cost to scrap it, build a new EV and run the new EV (with battery change about 7-8 years and again at 15 or so years) will never stack up against keeping the 10 year old car going for another 10+ years. The killer might be the cost/availability of fuel. Diesel will go that way first I think, it is already uneconomical to have one where I live - it is routinely 30-40c per litre dearer than E10. There is no way a diesel can stack up against a small turbo/blown E10 powered engine at that cost differential.

[Shiney005]

The European Union / Government has just mandated that no new ICE vehicles will be sold there after 2035. Think of how many batteries will need disposal a few years after then.  I would also love to know how the poorer classes in Latvia, Estonia, and Poland are going to afford to replace their $10,000 (new) Dacia's and Skoda's.

[yel327]

And charge them. Hopefully in 10 years we’ll have a generational change in battery tech.

[IanC]

My understanding is batteries will never be the answer their looking for.. https://youtube.com/...U?feature=share

[yel327]

Bought to you by the fossil fuel industry! It does have a point though, the massive shift required to move all vehicles to EV's is (in my opinion) virtually impossible in the timeframes being discussed. Same with electrifying all homes. We simply do not have the base load generation required to do it nor the poles and wires to transmit it. I don't know what the answer is, but there are two obvious things in play: we cannot keep emitting CO2 and we cannot easily eliminate all use of fossil fuels. There are solutions on the horizon for both energy generation and storage plus CO2 capture and utilisation, but we aren't getting there fast enough and not at the required scale. I guess we'll have a good idea by 2030 what the next decade will bring us.

[IanC]

I think our country has to think seriously about nuclear. We can use the infrastructure that is already in place. Rolls Royce have been doing this for over 70 years. There been building them for America the whole time. Endless base load power. Most advanced countries have had nuclear power for decades. We sell them the uranium. https://youtu.be/WQ3DvcXd3mM

Edited by IanC, 28 March 2023 - 01:48 PM.

[yel327]

It’s a bit contradictory isn’t it? We are going to have mini-reactors on AUKUS subs but can’t have the same technology in generation. We have to store the spent fuel from the subs whether we like it or not, so that horse has already bolted. So why not store spent generation fuel?

[yel327]

On a basic level all a generation reactor does is create steam. A coal fired boiler also creates steam. The steam drives turbines which gives the rotating base load generation. So we could in theory replace the coal fired boilers with nuclear powered boilers. And keep them running until the power storage technology catches up. Down side is obvious though, just think Chernobyl and Fukushima.

[RallyRed]

You blokes haven't thought this through, have you?
The subs we have on order all have a 25000amp Anderson plug under a discrete cover on the arse end. (The French ones didn't have this, so they got the flick.)
All we do is back the U.S. ones' up to a power station, plug 'en, and and hey presto.
Power to burn.
Of course, this means 1 sub will be allocated to each main power station, and thus will typically be landlocked in a lake somewhere, but hey, did anyone ever really think they were going to save us from China anyway?.
Albo, he's ahead of the game.

[ozyozyozy]

I’m pretty sure this was raised, supers had an idea, that camaro was at the end of its model life. They will just run the car another year or 2, after that what they use in nascar will then be used in supercars.

Ps on the electric front, Germany is fighting the EU in regards to electric and petrol engines. They are trying to get synthetic fuelled engines across the line alongside EV’s with the upcoming new regulations and they are fighting hard. It’s to protect local manufacturing.
They have proven they are just as emission efficient as EV, there will be guidelines, that they can’t run with normal current fuels.

[Bruiser]

Sorry to be an opinionated arse, but camaros and mustangs just aren’t right
I wish they would make the touring car masters from 15 years ago
when Toranas and Ehs and minis were racing against the XYs into the top class
I think supercar has turned to
Don’t want an electric car, or a nuclear powered one, or a hydrogen powered balloon car
I hope they don’t stop selling petrol before I shuffle off

[yel327]

I have similar sentiments Bruce, but the problem with Touring Car Masters is finding parts. Unless you are running a Mustang or Camaro where new panels, even new shells are available. It also got expensive for engines, and they introduced the control LS based engines. It used to be awesome seeing 302 SBC Toranas and 350 Camaros & HQ's fight it out against 302/351 powered Fords in local or imported forms. With a screaming Hemi powered Valiant throw in.

Remember though that for a long time now V8 Supercars has been basically Australian Nascar. Neither the cars nor the engines were anything like production, just facsimiles with high-performance old-school engines at least in the Ford and Holden facsimiles. Also remember that GroupC racing used to be essentially Mustang vs Nova then Camaro from 1968 with a SuperFalcon and a HK later HT Monaro thrown into outright contention. More often than not it was won by a Mustang or a Camaro though - the ATCC was won 5 times by a Mustang and twice by a Camaro with the only exception being Beechey's GTS350 in 1970. Mustang and Camaro also featured in the later GroupC and GroupA. So when you think about it, in ATCC history Camaro and especially Mustang have been around longer than most other cars raced.

 

I'm sort of with you on the petrol cars, but drive and EV and you'll be impressed. Once the battery tech is more advanced you won't want a ICE as a runaround. If I live long enough I plan to have my pair of Warwick Yellow HK's, one with a manual 427 BBC and the other converted to be an EV. The bolt in conversion for the electric motor and controls can be bought now, it is just the battery technology has to improve to interest me.

[Shiney005]

ADR 80/04 has just been released. It is essentially towing the Euro 4 line from 2024 onwards.  It is also bigger than the bible.  Give yourself a good hour to read it.

 

https://www.legislat...ils/F2023L00129

[yel327]

ADR 80/04 has just been released. It is essentially towing the Euro 4 line from 2024 onwards.  It is also bigger than the bible.  Give yourself a good hour to read it.

 

https://www.legislat...ils/F2023L00129

 

EuroVI not IV Laurie.

 

Q&A's for the above. It has a little at the bottom stating that EuroVI for light vehicles isn't too far away, but we need to reduce Sulfur in Australian fuels to comply. Sounds like a good excuse to increase fuel cost to me!

 

Questions and answers on the new ADR 80/04 | Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts

 

Older article on EuroVI postponement: Australia postpones adoption of Euro 6 until 2027 - F&L Asia (fuelsandlubes.com)

[Uncle Chop Chop]

Both of my work vans comply with Euro 6, but that's because they're built in Europe. If I bought something from the land of the rising sun, they would be Euro 5 compliant.