Cheers. Yeah, it looks like this in the valley already:
I have followed the COME Racing oil modification video instructions to every detail, my motor is done exactly like that. Although it has nothing to do with this problem.
And I drilled a hole in the dip-stick handle and put a bit of wire through it in the pits the other day. I plan on replacing that with a spring, but hopefully that isn't a long-term necessity.
Ask Ian Tate or Dave Mclean. They built engines for both Series Production and Group C, both 6cyl and 308. I have to ask Dave a question about something else, I'll call him soon if I can and see if he will tell me. I can tell you the GTS327 and GTS350 Series Production engines had a baffled sump but it wasn't anything elaborate, but they were only running skinny tyres. The Beechey HK and HT GroupC Monaros had Traco race engines with probably dry sump.
Surely GroupA VK-VN engine builders are still around too.
I do intend to speak to some of the older fellas. Ian Tate is semi-retired nowadays, I actually do not know Dave McLean. Please let me know what you find out.
I spoke to Anthony who took over from Ian Tate and he was a good dude. He said I need to look at a Brookfields sump, and I need 7.5 Litres.
May be well worth a post on the Aussiev8 forums too Heath - some incredibly knowledgeable folk there.
Cool. I remember that forum being great but I assumed it was dead. It's still active you reckon?
Can only talk of 6 cyl experience, but oil issues on track are oil issues on track.
- like you have, baffled and scraped
- reduced flow to top
- high PRESSURE pump. Not high volume ( at 5000rpm, there is already plenty of flow/volume).
- drain the rocker covers to the SUMP, not the catch can.( i.e. AN fittings in the side of the rocker covers, hose staight back to sump.)
- top of rocker cover vented to can ( like you have).
- bonus points if you have the suction line plumbed to the side of the sump, and ditch the original type pickup tube.
I think its a given that long periods of high rpm will fill the rocker covers, the tip is to drain that back to the sump asap, so any surge is not so dramatic, as the sump is always still full.
IMHO
Thank you. I would love to not add rocker cover external drain-backs because they are bloody ugly (and I haven't had a chance to pull the motor out of the car again yet, which is needed to do that), but they are certainly not out of the question if the consensus is that they'll fix the problem.
I remember seeing a few variations of experimental sumps on V8 Toranas in the Prototype Build workshop, suggesting
there was a few oil surge concerns and innovative ways were being explored to get around the rules!
There were the usual baffles with hinged trap doors but they did not seem to do the job.
Another was a swinging pick-up which was supposed to follow the oil around the sump as it sloshed. I imagine it
eventually could not keep up and gulped air.
The most ingenious was a very large oil dump can whose “overflow” fed back into the sump through the drain plug,
coincidently right under the oil pump pick up. There was also a couple of electric oil pumps that scavenged from possibly
the rocker covers. The dry sump you have when you are not having a dry sump.
Interesting, and thank you. The swinging pickup is very interesting, haha! I don't quite know how the oil dump worked... some kind of valve to stop it over-filling the sump under normal circumstances?
I don't have rules holding me back, so I could, for example, add an accumulator or other tech into it.
I am considering going to a semi-dry sump, with a scavenge pump obviously, although that would just be scavenging from the sump. It's not a 5min or $5 job, though.
Group C rules for 1979 say OEM sumps may be modified with similar materials to increase maximum oil capacity to 9 litres for engines with a swept volume up to 3000cc and 11 litres for engines over 3000cc swept volume.
Baffling of the sump was free. One additional oil cooler up to 1 litre capacity may also be fitted as long as it remains within the confines of the coachwork. The oil pick up inside the sump may be modified or replaced up to the point where it meets the block (or pump, as appropriate)
Looks like huge oil capacity was the main order of the day to stave off oil starvation.
Right... I must say my motor actually only takes 5L until the dipstick tells me it's full, I was expecting it would be more like 7L. I did cut back the sump to a slightly lower profile but wouldn't imagine that made a 2L difference. I definitely want to add some oil capacity and was planning to probably extend the sump a bit more sideways, add an oil cooler, etc.
Does anyone have photos of these Brookfield sumps that the race cars had?
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