38 replies to this topic

[yel327]

Handy chart for cfm rates , over carbing.is a common problem , triples fall into another category ... going on the cam specs. for the s ...yeah they were not that "big" ...probly more like 214 @ 50 or even less to make peak 145BhP @ 4600 ...according to hk shop manual but they dont tell
us the lca..they were possibly on 109
Interisting stuff.

 

Unfortunately they don't tell you much, you have to measure them. Even the old Stafford Spare Parts & Services book I have only give you the same specs, only additional info is the lift at the cam which was 230 thou at the cam for the S engine. I did measure a VK EFI cam back in the early 90's, will see what it's lobe centre is.

[Bruiser]

I have a copy of a letter from wade cams stating the Lc xu1 cam is the 312.
An old wade cams model list printout gives the .050” numbers as
In 29/59, exh 64/24.
Fiv Antonio’s book has the cams listed using the with/without ramp
weird Holden style specs listed.
It says: no ramp 29/57 and 64/24
Close enough, so “no ramp” seems to be a .050” figure
Don’t know if Holden always published cam specs in this way.
That 312 cam is only 198 duration at .050”
I believe 186s and the X2 cams were the same, but surely not as
(big?) as that xu1 cam.
How then, can the X2 carbs work at 402cfm on such a mild motor?

Sorry Tylzey, your thread has taken off in another direction
Good on you for starting up something interesting
My uneducated stab in the dark at your power level
would be maybe 70 to 80hp under your wheels
Give the Holley a go, seeing as already have it.
Read up on how to fine tune it and have a crack
and keep your eye on your mileage, they can be real thirsty
if not set up right

[Bruiser]

The Tighe 973 has “186s xu1” in the note next to it’s specs
29/57, 64/24, but 194 at .050”
Maybe they are the same??
I thought the Lc xu1 was at least a little bit lumpy

[yel327]

LC XU1 is bigger than the S camshaft, but it is also near to the same (or the same) as the cam in the ADR27A auto 2850 and 3300 engines. The specs in the Fiv book is the same as in the GMH Engineering Technical data and it is not at 50 thou, it is always at 4-6 thou. This is what I posted in post 22 for the ADR27A cam and the initial LC XU1 cam, straight from the Engineering Technical specs, I reckon Tighe probably have it right at 194 @ 50 thou:

 

inlet open/close 29/59 268 total (XU1 29/57 266)

exhaust open/close 64/24 268 total (XU1 64/24 266)

53 total overlap (XU1 same).

Edited by yel327, 29 February 2024 - 05:58 AM.

[Bruiser]

Of course, what a tit I am
My cam with 254 @.050 has 50/22 at 50
Beers do make you smarter after all

[RallyRed]

From back in the day, when the fearsome VC 12 port was unleashed onto the roads.
26% more than the 9 port.
I think it suggests the VB was 64kw?
Your mods would increase that by 10-20%?.

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[yel327]

Think about it though. Red 173 and 202 from HQ through to the end of HJ used a tiny little camshaft and single barrel carby. The XT5 engines had a 2bbl carby and improved exhaust arrangement plus HEI ignition and they also used the improved camshaft from the XT4 (ADR27A) red engines. So what does everyone do to make their red engines 6 standard engines go better, head mods aside? Cam, ignition, carby and exhaust.

 

I can tell you firsthand that a WB 3.3 4spd van was heaps more powerful than the HZ it replaced with the same gearbox and rear axle ratio. I got to drive both as near new and new vehicles. The same with a WB 4.2 manual, far better driveline than the same thing in a HZ. The only saving grace for the HZ driveline wise was the HZ had a 5.0L engine option on the commercials, although auto only on cab-chassis. The red 5.0L and the blue 5.0L are not much different power and torque wise.

Edited by yel327, 29 February 2024 - 11:47 AM.

[RallyRed]

Yeah, I guess I was getting back to the original question, and the stock power of the 173.
Recollections from back in the 70's/80's are that when you did a carby, cam, pipes upgrade, the car didnt turn into a fire breathing monster...more of a " I can notice the difference" type thing.
10 - 20%?

Edited by RallyRed, 29 February 2024 - 01:49 PM.

[claysummers]

Not to mention improved intake passage, via taller manifold and ports Byron. Weren’t the cams still compromised performance wise for emissions? I was told the only upgrade I should do was replace the cam, just with a crow towing grind.


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[yel327]

The red ADR27A cam on auto engines was the same as LC XU1, manual cam was the same as HQ 202 and HK 161 from memory. Pretty sure the blue engines were the same. The 308/304 cam from HJ through to VL stayed the same too. All of the emissions was external.

Not to mention improved intake passage, via taller manifold and ports Byron. Weren’t the cams still compromised performance wise for emissions? I was told the only upgrade I should do was replace the cam, just with a crow towing grind.


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That’s why I said “head mods aside”!

[claysummers]

Same cam, but varied the timing I was told. The inlet manifolds are pretty good. Significant improvement on the reds.


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[EunUCh]

How much did the 173 make out the box ?....as mentioned , cam is the heart of the engine , a not too savage cam with ignition, exhaust , carb should liven it up a bit ...I think they were about 112 bhp at bit over 4krpm, get it to spin to 5 - 51/2k it should be still streetable & fun to drive...how much power gain depends on on the combo comes together , I would take a guess & say you should close to 130 hp maybe a tad more ...need to find oljohhnos building a hot six write ups & have a good read

[4dabush]

Might be a bit off topic, but Years ago in my 202 I had Sig Ergon rv15H..it was a baby cam, decked block +030, yella terra 202head balanced, lightened flywheel, 350 Holley, extractors and Mallory twinpoint, 

It went hard in the Torana, It idled nice, exhaust note was that you knew smothering was done to it, but wasn’t so lumpy my Parents wouldn’t drive it…Mum never complained, so was very liveable.  And was pretty economical. 4 speed 3.08 diff, Ran 15flats, on cold street rubber at road pressure.  It went into a 1 tonner and wasn’t as good with the extra weight…probably then could have done with a bigger cam then, but for the Torry, I’d happily live with something like that if it was an all day, every day driver. 
 

from another page, this was the spec. 
 

Grind: RV 15 H

111+4 Lobe Separation Angle

Overlap: 66

Intake Opens: 37 Exhaust Closes: 29

Intake Closes: 71 Exhaust Opens: 79

Running Clearance: 0.000 0.000 [Hot]

Valve Lift (Int / Exh): 0.432 0.432
.
Duration (Int / Exh): 288 288




Checking Figures @ .050" Tappet Rise

Overlap: -8

Intake Opens: 0 Exhaust Closes: -8

Intake Closes: 34 Exhaust Opens: 42

Duration Intake: 214.0 Duration Exhaust: 214.0

Lobe Lift Intake: 0.288 Lobe Lift Exhaust: 0.288

Intake Center Line: 107

Rocker Arm Ratio: 1.50

[claysummers]

Good ol' Sig Erson

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