18 replies to this topic

[mdj]

Howdy,

 

Getting to the point how where I'm looking at warming up my 202 a bit. Have Holley Sniper and ICE ignition to go on her.

 

My real question is about extent of head/cam package I should push for. It seems like getting 220ish HP is going to mean running pretty high stall, like 3000. Does anyone have experience with that on a red 6 street car and what driveability is like ?

Or should I dial back to stage 2 like cam where I can stick with a stock converter because I still have some torque at 2000rpm.

Oh, head wise I'm going for a fully six from HSD - basically a modern day stage 3.

 

(yes, I know a mild 308 would do all this with less hassle)

 

Thanks,

 

Matt

[Heath]

Put a manual in the car and you won't have to worry about converters, and it'll be a faster car with the same HP and obviously way more fun to drive.
 
I would have thought a combo like the Crow Cams 35604 would be as big as I'd go. What you want is a bit of an idle and a super strong mid-range.
Your head idea sounds good.
 
If you really want the car to be well behaved, triples or ITB's will serve you well. Injection generally will also calm it down at low air speeds (particularly with LPG like my car has) but the Sniper having only one throttle plate and one injection point may not influence things all that well if it's just on a carbie manifold with a big open plenum (a wall in the plenum between 3 and 4 may help its manners at low engine speeds)

[Bruiser]

Heath’s on the money there, but if you want 220 hp you might need a bit more cam.
I had a cam pretty close to that crow and got 140hp at wheels with a 465 Holley
and 170 cfm head. 170hp at flywheel? 180 being optimistic because the dyno tune was crummy
Went well though, was nice to get around in, easy to drive - not cranky

[yel327]

Can you get a hydraulic roller for a GMH 6? That would be a nice upgrade.

 

What Sniper have you got for it? The 2BBL one with the same base as a WW Stromberg? That would be perfect on a 186S intake. Should work fine with a flat tappet hydraulic LC XU1 cam. GMH used this cam on auto HX-HZ late LX-UC 2850 and 3300 engines.

 

Are you thinking of doing lots of kM thus wanting to use E10 (94) or 95? Or is it just a weekend thing so 98 would be OK? This will drive your compression and camshaft choice.

 

I'd try and find an older Perfectune head, something that'll give you a static compression around 9.5-ish creeping upwards as the cam gets bigger. Then figure out what converter is required with the engine specs sorted and knowing your rear axle and tyres - a converter mob will tell you what to use. Unless you want to spend big bucks on a new alloy head or similar. Then it might be cheaper to buy an injected 5.0L.

[mdj]

Can you get a hydraulic roller for a GMH 6? That would be a nice upgrade.

I've only seen solid rollers

What Sniper have you got for it? The 2BBL one with the same base as a WW Stromberg? That would be perfect on a 186S intake. Should work fine with a flat tappet hydraulic LC XU1 cam. GMH used this cam on auto HX-HZ late LX-UC 2850 and 3300 engines.

It's a 2300 so just like a 2BBL Holley.  I've got a Redline Torker manifold

Are you thinking of doing lots of kM thus wanting to use E10 (94) or 95? Or is it just a weekend thing so 98 would be OK? This will drive your compression and camshaft choice.

 

I'd try and find an older Perfectune head, something that'll give you a static compression around 9.5-ish creeping upwards as the cam gets bigger. Then figure out what converter is required with the engine specs sorted and knowing your rear axle and tyres - a converter mob will tell you what to use. Unless you want to spend big bucks on a new alloy head or similar. Then it might be cheaper to buy an injected 5.0L.

Should always be in range of a 98 pump. Haven't had much luck finding 2nd hand heads hence was going to have HSD make me one.

[mdj]

Put a manual in the car and you won't have to worry about converters, and it'll be a faster car with the same HP and obviously way more fun to drive.
 
I would have thought a combo like the Crow Cams 35604 would be as big as I'd go. What you want is a bit of an idle and a super strong mid-range.
Your head idea sounds good.
 
If you really want the car to be well behaved, triples or ITB's will serve you well. Injection generally will also calm it down at low air speeds (particularly with LPG like my car has) but the Sniper having only one throttle plate and one injection point may not influence things all that well if it's just on a carbie manifold with a big open plenum (a wall in the plenum between 3 and 4 may help its manners at low engine speeds)

Thanks Heath. Yeah I was looking at that cam myself. Was wondering if the Sniper would buy me the luxury of going a little more aggressive and still idle OK (needs to handle an AC compressor). The Sniper is a 2300 and I have a Redline Torker which is just a big open plenum. Car already has Pacemaker headers on a decent exhaust.

[yel327]

You've probably got the right intake for a 2300. I would have got the Sniper 2GC small bore and used a 186S intake.

 

I have a head here that might work, will get some photos for you. Might be real cheap if you go near Caboolture. I have something there I need to get picked up and held onto for a little while.

[mdj]

You've probably got the right intake for a 2300. I would have got the Sniper 2GC small bore and used a 186S intake.

 

I have a head here that might work, will get some photos for you. Might be real cheap if you go near Caboolture. I have something there I need to get picked up and held onto for a little while.

I don't, but Caboolture isn't too far for something of that value, so I can ...

Looks like Crow have hydraulic roller tappets for a Holden 6, but I couldn't see any cam grinds ready to go. I wonder if it's worth it just to get back the robbed HP.

[yel327]

Matt

 

The head is here with me. I have something to pickup in Caboolture that I've been trying to get someone to grab for me and hang onto for a short while until I'm up in Brisbane next.

 

The head is a 179/186/202 head, has the inlets opened up and posts. Has 186 style rockers on I think screw in studs and guide plates. It's covered in oil and gunk, will have to did it out and see which head it is. Almost certain it's a 1971 202 head though. Had it for years. I don't think its milled much as the chambers look pretty original. Will need a really good clean up but has filthy oil on everything under the rocker cover area.

[warrenm]

I think you'll find that a hydraulic roller from Crow will be a custom grind, which will probably have scary price tag. If you're chasing 220ish at the flywheel, you are going to need more than YT head, most will need a full reco, guides, valves machining etc. which isn't cheap, on the other hand, the HSD type head you mentioned will probably do the trick. The other alternative is to hang a snail on the side of the 202 which will probably allow you to keep a std type convertor, something to think about.

[yel327]

This head will need a full reco. I'd also be looking at the engine bottom end, it'll need doing to give you that hp.

[claysummers]

My friend recently fitted one in his 300hp 173 blue block. Jonny Marshall supplied, around $500 for the cam. Just had to grind down the side plate attaching bosses to install the lifters, use a brass gear on the oil pump, and went to electric fuel pump. The roller cam was steel and would wear out the mechanical pump lever arm. Hence also the brass oil pump drive.

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[yel327]

You'd probably have to run a composite or a hardened steel distributor gear as well as the oil pump? I thought the bronze or brass gears were essentially sacrificial and not for long term use?

[claysummers]

Yeah dunno Byron. Blue dissys have a nylon gear, but he runs crank trigger.

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[Bruiser]

Don’t suppose a dizzy would be anywhere near as hard to turn as an oil pump
Maybe the dizz gear doesn’t matter as much

[mdj]

This head will need a full reco. I'd also be looking at the engine bottom end, it'll need doing to give you that hp.

Sorry for the delayed response. I haven't called around yet but I'm thinking the cost of the full reco is going to be in the same sort of ballpark as HSD's product so I'm probably better off time/effort wise just going with that, but I will let you know if that changes once the hard turkey talk is done.

[mdj]

I think you'll find that a hydraulic roller from Crow will be a custom grind, which will probably have scary price tag. If you're chasing 220ish at the flywheel, you are going to need more than YT head, most will need a full reco, guides, valves machining etc. which isn't cheap, on the other hand, the HSD type head you mentioned will probably do the trick. The other alternative is to hang a snail on the side of the 202 which will probably allow you to keep a std type convertor, something to think about.

It's only about $80 difference custom vs catalog from Crow so it's worth considering. The main thing for me would be figuring out what the HP saving of the roller was vs the extra time and effort to fit it. They look a lot taller than a standard tappet so will likely require some die griding under the side covers. 10HP is obviously quite significant in holden 6 terms so if it's that high I'd take a good look.

As for the snail ... point taken, and my car being a UC hatch there is something about that approach that feels right.

[yel327]

Sorry for the delayed response. I haven't called around yet but I'm thinking the cost of the full reco is going to be in the same sort of ballpark as HSD's product so I'm probably better off time/effort wise just going with that, but I will let you know if that changes once the hard turkey talk is done.

 

Agree. Unless you want an old iron head modified that is probably a more sensible choice.

[Bruiser]

Double agree
Especially once you start down the path of
“While you’re there” can you give the short turns a tickle up etc, etc, etc
For me, the appeal of the roller cam idea has always been the way they
can bang that lifter up so quickly with such a steep ramp.
Logical next step if you need another 10hp out of your already maxxed out
group n race car engine
Could you not get the power number you are after with a well chosen
solid flat tappet? Maybe even a big hydraulic