20 replies to this topic

[Shiney005]

The Holden V8 firing order (12784563) is exactly the same as a Ford's firing order. (15486372)

Discuss.

 

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[76lxhatch]

I know Fords have a weird way of numbering their cylinders (possibly more than one variation depending on the engine), so guessing the V8 one in question would be:

 

1 2 3 4

 5 6 7 8

 

where a Holden is:

1 3 5 7

 2 4 6 8

 

making the cylinders the same. But they sound a lot different...?

[claysummers]

I’m not feeling well teacher. Can I be excused please?


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[Shiney005]

I know Fords have a weird way of numbering their cylinders (possibly more than one variation depending on the engine), so guessing the V8 one in question would be:

 

1 2 3 4

 5 6 7 8

 

where a Holden is:

1 3 5 7

 2 4 6 8

 

making the cylinders the same. But they sound a lot different...?

Smack on!  I don't know why they sound so different though.  At high revs, the 308 is one of the best sounding motors ever.

Edited by Shiney005, 05 September 2024 - 05:25 PM.

[Dr Terry]

I know Fords have a weird way of numbering their cylinders (possibly more than one variation depending on the engine), so guessing the V8 one in question would be:

 

1 2 3 4

 5 6 7 8

 

where a Holden is:

1 3 5 7

 2 4 6 8

 

making the cylinders the same. But they sound a lot different...?

AFAIK Ford number all their V8s that way, but there are 2 different firing orders.

 

One of them is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8  & the other is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 

 

Dr Terry

[Bruiser]

That second ford firing order is for the 351
289 and 302s are the same as a 308 then
Could explain why those 3 have a different sound at revs
than the 351
Thinking about the order of the pulses between the left and right
groups of exhausts the 308 and littler fords go
L-L-R-R L-R-R-L
351s would go
L-L-R-L R-R-L-R
Counting 1 to 8

Start the counting at 6, though
R-R-L-L-L-R-R-L
as opposed to
R-L-R-L-L-R-L-R for 351 which seems more even

I am thinking the timing of pulses through seperate twin exhaust pipes
could make a fair difference and how this could relate
to how much H or X pipes change the sound of a v8

Edited by Bruiser, 06 September 2024 - 09:35 AM.

[Shiney005]

R-R-L-L-L-R-R-L. In my head, that is what the cammed 308 in my VK sounds like when idling.

[N/A-PWR]

Not Ford, but interesting.

Laurie made me look at this firing order lesson:

https://www.youtube....h?v=30H7HKKhgXQ

Edited by N/A-PWR, 06 September 2024 - 10:56 AM.

[Bruiser]

R-R-L-L-L-R-R-L. In my head, that is what the cammed 308 in my VK sounds like when idling.

Sounds like me falling down a flight of stairs

[yel327]

Smack on! I don't know why they sound so different though. At high revs, the 308 is one of the best sounding motors ever.

Heads make a difference too. My Overlander with its stock HZ red 308 and single 2.5” system with cast iron exhaust manifolds was quiet. When I put a stock VP 5.0L in it with cast iron manifolds and the same carby and exhaust it was way too loud, and sounded very different.

One of the reasons I think 253/308 sound bad is if you use early heads (pre HX) with dual exhaust and no crossover pipe they become thong slappers.

I still reckon one of the best sounding V8’s is a 427 BBC, 426 Hemi sound good too.

[LXCHEV]

According to this source - the Ford firing order of 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2, which is the one we're saying is the same as the mighty Holden V8 - is only for the Ford Y block. 1950's stuff.

 

The Ford 289, 302, 429 and 460 engines - have a different firing order of 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

 

Then there's the 351 having 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.

 

I wonder if siamesed exhaust ports (ie Holden 308 and SBC) would also influence the sound difference to that of the Ford?

 

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[dattoman]

The best one is of course

1-5-6-3-4-2-7-8

[warrenm]

There's only one firing order that matters, 153624, end of discussion.  

[claysummers]

Yep….


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[yel327]

Definitely. I reckon the HT to VL heads sound different to VN-VS.

[Shiney005]

The best one is of course

1-5-6-3-4-2-7-8

Cadillac 500 I'd wager.  There is another motor with this firing order.

  Chris Craft used to buy 283 blocks from GM to marinize (marinise?) for their boats. The Chev 283 firing order is 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2, however Chris Craft re numbered the cylinders as they made almost every other part themselves including the crank and cam which made the firing order 1 5 6 3 4 2 7 8.........................for the starboard side motor. For the port side they had the motor counter rotating with a firing order of 1 8 7 2 4 3 6 5.

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[Shiney005]

According to this source - the Ford firing order of 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2, which is the one we're saying is the same as the mighty Holden V8 - is only for the Ford Y block. 1950's stuff.

 

The Ford 289, 302, 429 and 460 engines - have a different firing order of 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

 

Then there's the 351 having 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8.

I am still trying to get a handle on the Ford stuff. They sure like making life difficult.  The 302 is indeed 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8, but the 302 H.O. is 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8.

Then there is the 351 H.O. in 1990's Mustangs, Thunderbirds, and F100's which have the same 1 5 4 8 6 3 7 2 firing order as in the opening post, even though the emissions decal under the bonnet has the 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 order printed on it.  Mechanics must go insane over in the States!

Edited by Shiney005, 07 September 2024 - 10:29 AM.

[Shiney005]

The best one is of course

1-5-6-3-4-2-7-8

Also closest so far to the lead sequence in an L34. 1 5 7 3 4 2 6 8

[Dr Terry]

I am still trying to get a handle on the Ford stuff. They sure like making life difficult.  The 302 is indeed 1 5 4 2 6 3 7 8, but the 302 H.O. is 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8.

Then there is the 351 H.O. in 1990's Mustangs, Thunderbirds, and F100's which have the same 1 5 4 8 6 3 7 2 firing order as in the opening post, even though the emissions decal under the bonnet has the 1 3 7 2 6 5 4 8 order printed on it.  Mechanics must go insane over in the States!

I was caught out on a job many years ago.

 

Back in the early 70s you couldn't easily find camshafts for 351 Windsor motors, which had a different firing order to the 289/302. But you could fit a cam from a 289/302 to the 351 Windsor by just swapping the ignition leads to match.

 

Anyway this XW GT came in missing badly. I checked everything including making sure that the firing order was correct. I wasted so much time on this thing checking & triple checking everything.

 

The firing order was cast into the inlet manifold, so I had to be correct, but no. I swapped the leads to a 289/302 order & hey presto it ran perfectly. After I finished the job I ground the numbers off the inlet manifold so the next guy didn't get caught out.

 

That was 45 years ago, yet I remembered that job as if was yesterday.

 

Dr Terry

[LJ RB30]

Holy crap Batman! Now that’s a curveball you wouldn’t expect 🤪
I found out years ago that V6 capri were numbered 1 2 3 down one side when I helped an old mate start his fresh rebuild in his Datto 1000 ute.
Had us scratching our head for a while!
My comment at the time was BLOODY FORDS!!

I was caught out on a job many years ago.

Back in the early 70s you couldn't easily find camshafts for 351 Windsor motors, which had a different firing order to the 289/302. But you could fit a cam from a 289/302 to the 351 Windsor by just swapping the ignition leads to match.

Anyway this XW GT came in missing badly. I checked everything including making sure that the firing order was correct. I wasted so much time on this thing checking & triple checking everything.

The firing order was cast into the inlet manifold, so I had to be correct, but no. I swapped the leads to a 289/302 order & hey presto it ran perfectly. After I finished the job I ground the numbers off the inlet manifold so the next guy didn't get caught out.

That was 45 years ago, yet I remembered that job as if was yesterday.

Dr Terry

[Rockoz]

If my memory serves me right, one of the racing car magazines did an article in the Bob Morris/Ron Hodgson hatches.

There were a few little pearlers of info in it, such as increasing the life of the cam and lifters, as well as them changing the firing order of the 308.

They claimed some improvement which I cant remember.

 

Cheers

 

Rob