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For those interested in commodore brakes on a tory

Started by _Sammy_ , Sep 20 2006 09:52 AM

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26 replies to this topic

#1 _Sammy_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 09:52 AM

well i know alot of people ask these questions and in the process of working all this out i have asked the same questions ... so hopefully this will help some people out with deciding on what way to go with commodore brake upgrades.

this is the Torana drum brake stub axle, modified to suit the brake adaptor brackets - please note this is not a Torana steering arm.
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i have finally got the drum brake stub axles i needed and also some new rotors so im very close to fitting the brakes now. I have fitted the brakes to my spare front end and have been able to work out how much clearance i have with everything and im pleased to say it almost fits too well

firstly a bit of a comparison, LH Torana disc is 256mm solid, on the left is the standard ventilated commodore disc 270mm, i was originally going to fit these to the Torana - this is the same from VB-VP (6 cylinder) as far as i can see, and the one on the right is a VP V8 disc, VR/VS also use the same size disc but they use the hat type, whereas VP uses the hub type which is what we need here.
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note there are two type of disc, DBA017 and DBA027, from what i can see 017 is early VP V8 and i think also VL Turbo, and 027 is later model VP V8, only difference i can see is that the 027 has a 1mm thicker disc and the same minimum thickness, so i picked it.

now you can't really see it in this picture, but i had to grind out a fair section of the caliper mount just above the balljoint to make it clear, this is with the 270mm VK disc/calipers. I am led to believe HQ conversion requires a similar modification.
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in this one with the VP V8/VR/VS caliper it is spaced out further for the larger disc and hense doesn't require any modifications which is always a good thing.
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also another problem with the VK caliper was this top point, this is with the wheel at full lock and the suspension right up on the bump stop, as you can see with the VP V8 caliper it clears nicely.
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the only other place left to check was the upper ball joint which can be a problem with certain mags, however in this case i can actually fit my finger between the rim and grease nipple - i have also trial fitted commodore chaser rims (15x6 from memory) and these fit ok.
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and this is pretty much how it is going to look on the car, only thing is that i will be using lower profile tyres otherwise they will hit on the front and rear of the guards when i turn (and also to keep them the same size as whats on the car now)
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last thing to do is to get some brake lines that come out on the right angle from the caliper which should make them the same location as the old torana brakes, once thats done i'll need to get the metal hoses modified to have a commodore fitting on them to screw into the commodore brake lines.

then it will be onto the rear discs :rockon:

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#2 DanWA

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 10:34 AM

Cheers mate this sussed out half of my thread in another section

Let me know when you've moved to the rears...

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#3 _Keithy's_UC_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 10:36 AM

Good onya sammy! I'm keen as all buggery to see how this turns out now!!

Excellent tech article...

Cheers
Keith

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#4 _Sammy_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 10:45 AM

you and i both Keithy

as for the rears, im using VR V6 diff for my parts, brakes and axles are the same as VN/VP and maybe even VS i think, looks like its simply a matter of getting the axles cut down to suit, and then fitting the brakes im not sure about, i have heard they are close to the shock tower ... i will have to dummy them up on a diff i have out of the car and see how that goes ... other than that, same goes with the brake lines, need to get some fittings for the commodore threads on the caliper hoses ... i already have UC rear discs so i don't need to remove the check valve in the master cylinder .... should be too easy i hope!

Edited by Sammy, 20 September 2006 - 10:46 AM.

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#5 _LX8VD69_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 12:39 PM

i already have UC rear discs so i don't need to remove the check valve in the master cylinder .... should be too easy i hope!

i take it this is on a LH - LX and if so what hand brake cable are you using? as i have bolted a VN disc brake set up onto a banjo and im still trying to sort out my hand brake. or have you simply had a cable specially made?

cheers adam

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#6 _Sammy_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 02:15 PM

the uc rear disc handbrake cable is just a torana cable with the right ends on it
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i'm just going to have a custom cable made, not sure about that yet though .... i know it will need commodore ends on it and probably the commodore sheith ... might be easiest to fit the commodore floor brackets too it, then i'd say it will just need to be made to the right length.

i have the handbrake cable from the VR so i'll be fitting it in once the brakes are on the car to test where everything will sit and all that.

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#7 _LX8VD69_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 02:48 PM

i can tell you your VR cable will be about 5 inchs too short, i know from experience
cheers adam

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#8 _Sammy_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 03:24 PM

interesting, i would have said it would have been too long

.... looks like i'll be extending the adjustment screw 5 inches then

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#9 _LX8VD69_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 03:29 PM

my theory on why its to short is because commodores have thier handbrake levers in the middle and toronas are further forward and off to the drivers side. i keep getting told by my mechanic we should just make up a bar about 7 inchs long with nut corresponding to the thread on the torana lever and a bolt in the other end that will allow the handbrake bracket to slide over it, that should take care of the length, to allow the cable to slide through the handbrake cable brakets on the body i reckon a die grinder would take care of that, at least that what im thinking about the brackets, its just a matter of trial and error

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#10 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:43 PM

last thing to do is to get some brake lines that come out on the right angle from the caliper which should make them the same location as the old torana brakes, once thats done i'll need to get the metal hoses modified to have a commodore fitting on them to screw into the commodore brake lines.

Haven't done that yet? Have fun!

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#11 _Sammy_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:54 PM

you make it sound like its the hard part chopper ? its not that bad

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#12 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:58 PM

If you decide to have the Commodore caliper at the front of the stub ( where the Torana caliper was originally ), you could have some fun.

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#13 dattoman

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Posted 20 September 2006 - 11:14 PM

Just for clarification

DBA017 and DBA027
The main difference is the 027 has a machined surface to fit the ABS sensor ring. Not an issue for us so just pick the cheaper one.
These discs are 290mm in diameter

DBA015 and DBA025 are 270mm

DBA035 is the hubless 290mm disc on VR-VS

Pic 3 shows the "smoothie" caliper from VB-VP with 270mm disc

Pic 5 shows the "finnie" caliper used on VL V8, turbo and VN-VP with FE2 susp and 290mm discs
Its also the same caliper as all VR and VS series cars

Both calipers take the same pads and have the same bolt mounting and piston size.
They just have different brackets to space the caliper up 10mm for larger disc clearance
Bleeders are in different positions also

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#14 makka

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 10:51 AM

i can tell you your VR cable will be about 5 inchs too short, i know from experience
cheers adam

grab your self a wagon cable, they are longer than a sedan one

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#15 _Sammy_

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 11:13 AM

just so happens my handbrake cable is from a VR Wagon so i'll see how it works out!

Chopper: the only thing stopping me from putting the original brake line in the direction i want is the lip on the outer side of the caliper (left of the hose fitting in the below pic) and i believe this can be ground flat in the centre to allow that hose to point out at about 10-11 o'clock which is pretty close to where the stock LH ones point.

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i'm planning to pull the calipers apart to fit new seals etc anyways so i'll be able to have a look inside it and if it looks like the lip isn't used for any strengthing purposes i'd say i'll just grind it out to fit the line in then drill a new hole for the locating dowel and she should be apples!

main focus for me is using parts that i can just buy off the shelf, if a flexable brake line shits itself i can't have the car off the road for half a week waiting to get a custom line made up, but things like the calipers and steal brake lines which rarely need replacing can be slightly custom and it shouldn't cause problems.

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#16 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 12:20 AM

I got some custom flexible brake lines ordered through ABS, got them the next day.
I got some custom stainless hoses made on the spot at Hoppers Stoppers.

So you will be running the caliper at the rear of the stub, or is that just for the pic?

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#17 _Sammy_

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 08:35 AM

caliper is going to be in the same location that the original is, the picture i used to explain it has a different steering arm on there (was more just for locating bolts on the adaptor etc at the time.

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#18 _CHOPPER_

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 10:46 AM

When I adapted the VK 4 wheel discs to my LX some 6 - 8 years ago, I had less problems front mounting the calipers. Mind you, it was a rush job due to the fact it was my only registered vehicle at the time.

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#19 _Aidan_

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 11:26 AM

Hey Sammy, if it helps at all I got a hoppers kit on with the caliper mounted to the rear. I ran the brakeline over the caliper, over the top of the bleeder, between the stub axle and the upper balljoint nut to the original mounting positiion. It dangles freely at the front but if you have correct offset wheels it aint a drama. Its zip tied to the caliper and stub axle, and obviously need to remove zip ties to bleed the caliper or remove it off the rotor.

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#20 _Sammy_

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 02:54 PM

well after some playing around i decided to grind the groove in the caliper that i mentioned, and re-drilled the locating dowl hole and now she is sweet as.

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also had to bend the metal line straighter as it curved slightly towards the inside of the car, so its now more straight out and it clears with about 1 cm

after seeing this below picture i thought that possibly angling it down more would be spot on and would mean there wouldn't be a need to bend the metal line, but i didn't think of that till afterwards

well thats one less hurdle to worry about!

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#21 hatchssv8

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 01:50 PM

Hey Sammy,

Out of interest, where did you get the brackets shown in the first pic.

Thanks, Max

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#22 _Sammy_

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Posted 04 October 2006 - 01:58 PM

many many moons ago (3-4 yrs) i got them with a v6 conversions commodore rack kit for a hr front end which i was putting into my EK Sedan, i was going to do similar to this post however i wasn't having alot of luck with it all and i ended up buying the twin piston kit from hoppers stoppers for the EK, so i had these spare adaptors and just needed torana drum stubs to make them fit on the torana ... so here we are

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#23 _Sammy_

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 09:33 PM

well its only been about 5 months but i have finally gotten my shit together and got the front brakes on the car ....

one of the first things that i always thought was going to be a problem was the banjo bolt that holds the brake line to the caliper, when you turn full lock it hits on the crossmember and pushes the piston back into the caliper, next press of the pedal and it ends up on the floor! so to resolve that problem i got the oxy out and bashed the crossmember in to fix the problem. it still needs more work just to make me happy but it hasn't been a problem on the tests i've done since doing it.
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next problem is needing to very slightly notch the upper control arm, just to be sure the caliper wont hit it on full lock over bumps.

as you can see, everything on the stub axle side of things fits perfectly, its just the crossmember and control arms that cause issues.
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you can also see in the above pic that i have ground out the edge of the caliper to allow the brake line to go out at the right angle. it is also a vb-vp commodore brake line as it has the bell type flare whereas the VR/VS lines have a ball flare which i couldn't do at home with my flaring tool. all was required was to cut the end off the stock brake lines, remove the torana threaded fitting and replace it with a commodore threaded fitting and re-flare, then it just bolted in.

one other thing i did while i was at it was to use hx kingswood pads instead of the vr/vs pads, as you can see below, on the left you have the stock vr/vs pad, in the middle is a hx pad with the tabs on the side cut down to suit vr/vs caliper, then the pad on the right is the stock hx pad with the larger tabs ... this mod gives about 5-8mm more inner disc coverage and maybe 2mm more on the outside, but it all counts

this is how it all looks together
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and this is the commodore 16x7 wheels i chose along with 205/45/16 bridgestone GIII's
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one bonus of this has set the wheels in a bit more which means theres more guard clearance, i used to have problems with the tyres rubbing on the guards when turning tight, this has now gone!

on the bedding in drive the other day it was raining so i really couldn't test them that much, but it felt very reasonable for a new tyre and in the wet! i'm keen to get it out in the dry and see how they work .... either way, im very pleased with it all, some minor tweaks to the clearance on the crossmember and control arms and it will be perfect!

now to get the commodore axles re-splined so i can do the rear

once the axles are done this end should fairly much be a walk in the park after the fronts